Thread: Vietnam People's Navy

Six SSKs for a navy with virtually no sub-surface experience (correct me if I'm wrong, other than their two midget subs) is a pretty ambitious undertaking to say the least. Think it'll actually happen?

I wouldn't be surprised if they got two or three, but it's gonna be years before they could get all six delivered and crews trained up - up to 15, maybe more.

Think it's more of a case of keeping up with the Jones. By the time they get trained crews, the subs would be obsolete.

Dominance in the gulf of Tolkien, getting subs seems to be a good anti-access first step. it has to start from somewhere right?

Andy, I am going to yield to DPrime, he's a Canadian Naval Officer on this.

Are the Vietnamese seriously thinking of challenging the South Seas Fleet?

Good luck with that.

The term I used was "anti-access" a similar tactic PLAN adopted in yester-year

Those BPS-500 boats might look powerful, but not enough to deter

I think a better option that diesel subs would be coastal patrol boats armed with missiles and torpedo tubes. Vastly easier to employ, and cheaper too. Swarms of torpedo boats at 50+ knots cannot be taken lightly.

Of course the subs have distinct advantages, but the learning curve is extremely steep.

well, the BPS-500s was pull back in the 2007 confrontation because they were completely outgunned nor the vietnamese government went to make a political issue out of it.

What you are suggesting will only work if you have more smaller boats and the OpForce has limited big ships. But, giving the limited space of gulf of Tolkien there will not be any elements of surprise.

Here is Fox's news' take on it.



Vietnam Orders Fleet of Russian Subs, Sending Message to China

Thursday, May 07, 2009
By Joseph Abrams

Vietnam Orders Fleet of Russian Subs, Sending Message to China - International News | News of the World | Middle East News | Europe News - FOXNews.com

In what may be a not-so-stealthy message to Beijing amid citizen protests of China's growing influence in its country, Vietnam has ordered a small fleet of silent Russian attack submarines.

Foreign policy experts say Vietnam's national identity is bound up in the idea of opposition to China, and the deal to buy the subs is the latest sign that the country of 87 million is concerned about "Sinification."

"The Vietnamese government is committed to a normal relationship with China, but nobody in Vietnam sleeps with their China eye closed," said Brantly Womack, professor of foreign affairs at the University of Virginia.

"A good part of Vietnam's patriotic identity is its righteous resistance to China."

Vietnam's $1.8 billion deal with Russia for six Kilo-class submarines is a substantial order for the tiny, struggling country, whose annual military budget is estimated at just $3.6 billion, according to Jane's Intelligence Review.

While not a signal of an arms race, "it's something that is pretty clearly a response to Chinese buildups" of force in the area, said Womack — including China's new submarine base on Hainan Island, just off the Vietnamese coast.

That resistance has been in ample evidence in recent weeks as Vietnamese workers have led protests against Chinese industrial projects they say could wreak havoc on their nation's central highlands.

Vietnam holds one of the world's largest reserves of bauxite ore, an ingredient used in making aluminum, and one that China needs to feed its voracious construction industry.

A recent decision by the Vietnamese government to allow the Aluminum Corporation of China to mine the ore prompted a widespread outcry over potential environmental harm, but also gave voice to significant fears of growing Chinese influence in the region.

A prominent Vietnam War-era general, Vo Nguyen Giap, is leading the charge against Chinese development. Giap, the founding father of Vietnam's military, wrote a public letter last month opposing the mining operation, and he reiterated his opposition Thursday as Vietnam's prime minister, Nguyen Tan Dung, visited his home.

"This is a strategically important location for the country in terms of security and defense, not only for Vietnam but all of Indochina," Giap told the prime minister, Reuters reported.

Some regional analysts say that tensions between Vietnam and China wax and wane over time, and that they are no higher than usual. The financial crisis has highlighted certain disputes, particularly the struggle to attract foreign investments.

"I don't at this point at least see any fundamental shift toward antagonism," said Ken Lieberthal, a visiting fellow in foreign policy at Brookings Institution. "There's always a limit to how much they trust each other."

Vietnam and China, which have been at odds for 3,000 years, most recently fought a brief but bloody war in 1979 that killed tens of thousands. The countries partnered during North Vietnam's war with French- and American-supported South Vietnam, but the partnership quickly dissolved after the North and South consolidated, and Vietnam sought closer ties with the Soviet Union in the late 1970s.

Lieberthal said that "real trouble" between Vietnam and China may lie in future disputes over water. China continues the heavy damming of the Mekong River, the lifeblood of Vietnam's south, which winds a 2,700-mile path through six countries but has its source in China.

"This affects people all along the Mekong. This is something that has tremendous popular resonance," Lieberthal told FOXNews.com. "If you're talking about a win-lose situation, the Chinese are in a position to win at tremendous cost to Vietnam and others."

The two countries are also engaged in disputes over two island chains in the South China Sea, the Paracels and the Spratlys, both of which are believed to hold substantial oil reserves.

Defense experts say the newly ordered Russian subs — called "Black Holes" by the U.S. Navy for their ability to avoid detection — are designed for anti-sub and anti-ship warfare. They could help protect Vietnam's claims in the South China Sea and deny access to its more than 2,000 miles of coastline.

U.S. officials were wary to comment on tensions in the region or on Hanoi's purchase of the vessels.

"We speak with all regional actors in the region including China and Vietnam on a regular basis regarding events and developments in the region," said State Department spokesman Gordon Duguid. "It's not useful for us to speculate on other nations' military purchases."

Of all things they could've ordered, they got kilo subs. They could've maybe waited and got Lada, U-214 or Scorpene, but they got a sub that China has been operating for years and conducting ASW trainings against. And add that, they spend $300 million each?

Originally Posted by tphuang

Of all things they could've ordered, they got kilo subs. They could've maybe waited and got Lada, U-214 or Scorpene, but they got a sub that China has been operating for years and conducting ASW trainings against. And add that, they spend $300 million each?

As many people say, no two subs are created equal, i suppose this will be even more true when talking of exports.

As for the monies, everyone is shooting in the dark, no one knows what exactly the contract includes, so well that 300 million dollars could translate in anything, subs are the most expensive ships to run.

Originally Posted by tphuang

Of all things they could've ordered, they got kilo subs. They could've maybe waited and got Lada, U-214 or Scorpene, but they got a sub that China has been operating for years and conducting ASW trainings against. And add that, they spend $300 million each?

True, but with the KILO they get a proven design, plus a much cheaper price (presumably).

Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers

Andy, I am going to yield to DPrime, he's a Canadian Naval Officer on this.

Thank you sir, but I am by no means an expert on this. I joined this forum primarily to learn!