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Thread: youtube-3.14 Sea battle in Spratly Islands,1988

  1. #31
    New Member All for Peace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by All for Peace View Post
    In the early months of 1988, the Chinese Navy had landed troops on five reefs and atolls that belong to the Spratly Islands area. Three of them lie quite near the large islands of which Vietnam is in possession. The Vietnamese Navy then ferried supplies and equipment to six other reefs and atolls. They successfully gained control of them and prevented the Chinese Navy from extending their occupied zone into the other islands. In early March, the High Command of Vietnamese navy decided to take control over three reefs because they were still being fallow and form an open chain of reefs around Sin Cowe island that were in control of Vietnam. On March 13th, in late evening three transport ships of Vietnam arrived in time at those reefs and set up the flags to present Vietnamese sovereignty over them. However, some hours after the Vietnamese transport ships had reached target, four large Chinese warships got close to the Vietnamese and switched on the warning loudspeaker. They were equipped with advanced 100mm guns, missiles and torpedoes. Despite threat from Chinese warships, the Vietnamese transport ships patiently kept dropped anchor beside the reefs. They were not powerful enough to confront the Chinese and did not advocate escalating the conflict. The strain continued until early morning when the Chinese floated the boats and caused more conflicts for the battle breaking out. All the Chinese, especially soldiers, are taught that the ocean area of Spratly islands with hundreds islands, reefs and atolls belongs to China, although it lies at a distance of over 1000 km far from the undermost Chinese coast at Hainan island. The Chinese continued being ordered to take an oath before every floating boat that carried many armed marines.
    The Chinese boats rushed straight towards the reefs and approached the Vietnamese transport ships. Standing on the reefs on which the water level covers the half of their bodies, the Vietnamese sailors set up commanding positions along edge of the reefs to lay the defending lines and try to prevent the enemy from advancing forward. Seen from the air, they formed a circle. The Vietnamese defenders were absolutely outnumbered by Chinese troops and also were being threatened to be retreat from the reefs on which the flags were already planted as reaffirmation of sovereignty. Just because Vietnamese navy had refused to withdraw troops from the reef, the Chinese then used battleships for firing with 37 mm directly on the unarmed and light armed Vietnamese sailors on the reefs who were not able to attack them in their defending positions. They also fired with 100mm gun on the three Vietnamese transport ships and seriously damaged them, until two of them sank.64 Vietnamese sailors and officers lost their lives, among them were only 3 corpse were found after the end of battle,61 other persons still missed and reputedly dead. During the clash, two students in practice training from Academy of Vietnamese navy died while taking part in fighting on one of Vietnamese transports. The Chinese claim of their own casualties: 6 killed and 21 injured in combat. Eventually Vietnam defended successfully sovereignty over two reefs on that day. China has occupied the other ones since that incident.

    Nowadays, although living under constant threat and provocation from the other side, smiling atmosphere and the living standard of Vietnamese sailors and civilians in the Spratly Islands are improving gradually. Vietnam reaffirms continuously her sovereignty over the Spratly Islands. In the middle of the ocean, which is 300km far from the Vietnam coast, they stand together and unite together as one to protect the sea territory of their motherland.

    That's right. China is a invader.
    Spratly Islands Of Vietnam, forever!

  2. #32
    New Member All for Peace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by middle earth View Post
    Which one? PRC or ROC? Guess China also has documents to prove, it is a dispute. If Vietnam ferry some troops to the islands in the first place, China came later to claim them, China becomes an invader, what Vietnam is in Taiwan's eyes, it has stationed troops on that islands since WW2, is still sitting on the biggest island there, according to the logic, Vietnam is the invader. Taiwan also gave some assistance to China's retake of some reefs there, an invader too? Economic difficulty is not an excuse for nationalism.

    If you said Paracel & Spratly islands of your country, why China hadn't taken that problem to UN to solve?
    Spratly Islands Of Vietnam, forever!

  3. #33
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    China occupied NOTHING in Spratly islands before 1988.

    I have made two videos about this naval clash in German and English.

    Check it out and thanks alot for watching.

    German version:
    YouTube - China besetzte Spratly-Inseln durch Massenmord

    English version:
    YouTube - China invaded Spratly islands of Vietnam (real footage 1988)
    Last edited by Wehrmacht; 29 Apr 09, at 12:06.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by All for Peace View Post
    If you said Paracel & Spratly islands of your country, why China hadn't taken that problem to UN to solve?
    In 20th century, China was invited 2 times by the French to the International Court of Justice for those disputed islands.But China has denied.

    After the end of Vietnam war 1975, China continued denying to accept to solve the problem at the International Court of Justice.

    Instead of trying to solve the issue at the International Court of Justice, China used forces 2 times to take islands from Vietnam : 1974 at Paracels and 1988 at Spratlys.

    Chinese medien reaffirms many times that China has enough historical prooves of possesion of Spratlys and Paracels, but everytime they are invited to the International Court of Justice, they have denied it.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by All for Peace View Post
    If you said Paracel & Spratly islands of your country, why China hadn't taken that problem to UN to solve?
    I said nothing. Here is a tip for you, China took back Spratly islands from Japanese in 1947, what did Vietnam do in 40 years after that? Did Vietnam bring the case to UN? The naval ship that carried out the take-back is TAIPING, the biggest island in Spratly islands is named after the ship.

    In 04/Sep1958 Chinese government issued a declaration on its water territories, which says Paracel & Spratly islands belong to China. In a government note presented by Vietnam's premiere 范文同 in 14/Sep 1958,Vietnam(North) acknowledges and supports China's declaration. After Vietnam's unification, Vietnam changed its mind.

    If you trace back further, I don't want to hurt your feelings, Vietnam was a province to China, but no one is interested in taking it back. I said it is a dispute, if you say China is an invader, the same can be said about you by Chinese.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by middle earth View Post
    I said nothing. Here is a tip for you, China took back Spratly islands from Japanese in 1947, what did Vietnam do in 40 years after that? Did Vietnam bring the case to UN? The naval ship that carried out the take-back is TAIPING, the biggest island in Spratly islands is named after the ship.

    In 04/Sep1958 Chinese government issued a declaration on its water territories, which says Paracel & Spratly islands belong to China. In a government note presented by Vietnam's premiere 范文同 in 14/Sep 1958,Vietnam(North) acknowledges and supports China's declaration. After Vietnam's unification, Vietnam changed its mind.

    If you trace back further, I don't want to hurt your feelings, Vietnam was a province to China, but no one is interested in taking it back. I said it is a dispute, if you say China is an invader, the same can be said about you by Chinese.
    1947 ? The French occupied Spratlys and Paracels till 1956. Then they retreat from Vietnam.During the French withdrawing, China took the half of Paracels, Taiwan also used this chance to take the biggest island of Spratlys.

    1958, North Vietnam announced that they support the Chinese declaration of ocean territory but they didn´t announce anything to affirm the Chinese sovereignty over Paracels and Spratly, that were being claimed and in control of South Vienam (USA ally).
    Chinese medien intentionally explains the Vietnamese declaration in 1958 as a Vietnamese confirmation of Chinese sovereignty over Paracels and Spratlys. But in facts, in this declaration, there is absolutely NO word of Paracels and Spratly:
    " ...The Goverment of Vietnam Demo. Re. supports the declaration of PRC about the ocean territory of China "

    Ocean territory is 12 ocean miles, 200 miles EEZ. ect. , but NOT SOVEREIGNTY over any islands.
    As i said, Chinese medien has faked the reality of Vietnam´s declaration 1958.

    There is no word of "Paracels", "Spratly" and "sovereignty" in this short declaration.
    Last edited by Wehrmacht; 29 Apr 09, at 13:04.

  7. #37
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    China occupied NOTHING in Spratly islands before 1988.

    In fact, before the beginning of 1988, China had occupied NOTHING in Spratly islands.

    At a distance of over 800km far from Hainan island, where is known as the undermost border of China , the ancient Chinese could do NOTHING to occupy Spratly islands that comprised over 200 tiny islands, reefs and atolls and also standing storms.

    Pls check the ancient maps of China before 1950 ( when China started invading Tibet),you´ll see that the undermost borderline of China is the coast of Hainan island.In addition, there is not Paracel islands comprised in the ancient Chinese maps. (Paracel islands locate between Hainan island and Spratly islands ).

    As i said, before 1988, there was NOTHING occupied by China in Spratly islands, but the Chinese started occupying the reefs in Spratly at the beginning of 1988, that lie nearby the large islands of Vietnam (in control of Vietnam).
    Certainly we had then to land sailors into the other reefs that were not being in control of anyone to protect ourselves.

    Chinese medien reaffirmed many times that Vietnam´d fire firstly. But how can they fired firstly with 3 transport ships against 4 battle cruisers of China, unless they wanted to commit suicide.

    As you see in the real footage, China landed armed marines by motor-boats into the reefs and try to hold down the Vietnamese flags. But they were unsuccessful to force the Vietnamese to withdraw from the reefs and had gotten back to the their battle ships, before the Chinese fired on all the Vietnamese that were holding on to the reefs. They fired on the people who were not able attack them, who weren´t going to attack them , such a sad story.
    Last edited by Wehrmacht; 29 Apr 09, at 12:47.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wehrmacht View Post
    1947 ? The French occupied Spratlys and Paracels till 1956. Then they retreat from Vietnam.During the withdrawing of French, China took the half of Paracels, Taiwan also used this chance to take the biggest island of Spratlys.

    1958, North Vietnam announced that they support the Chinese declaration of ocean territory but they didn´t announce anything to confirm the Chinese sovereignty over Paracels and Spratly, that were being claimed and in control of South Vienam (USA ally).
    Chinese medien intentionally explains the Vietnamese declaration in 1958 as a Vietnamese confirmation of Chinese sovereignty over Paracels and Spratlys. But in facts, in this declaration, there is absolutely NO word of Paracels and Spratly:
    " ...The Goverment of Vietnam Demo. Re. supports the declaration of PRC about the ocean territory of China "

    Ocean territory is 12 ocean miles, 200 miles EEZ. ect. , but NOT SOVEREIGNTY over any islands.
    As i said, Chinese medien has faked the reality of Vietnam´s declaration 1958.

    There is no word of "Paracels", "Spratly" and "sovereignty" in this short declaration.
    It is a strange logic, like you signed an agreement, then you say, I signed it yes, but I don't agree to the clauses therein. Is it North Vietnam ruling party in government position or South Vietnam's today? Please don't bring in the French, you never agreed French colonial rule of Vietnam is legal, otherwise, you didn't need China's help to fight them.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by middle earth View Post
    It is a strange logic, like you signed an agreement, then you say, I signed it yes, but I don't agree to the clauses therein. Is it North Vietnam ruling party in government position or South Vietnam's today? Please don't bring in the French, you never agreed French colonial rule of Vietnam is legal, otherwise, you didn't need China's help to fight them.
    You don´t understand the different between ocean territory and sovereignty of islands.
    In the declaration of Vietnam 1958 (according/response to to the declaration of China on Sep 4th 1958) "Vietnam supports the Chinese ocean territory"

    I agree that China confirmed the Chinese sovereignty over Paracels and Spratlys in the declaration on Sep 4th 1958, but that is not the whole content of this declaration that comprised 4 points

    The Vietnamse declation 10 days later didn´t announce anything about Paracels and Spratlys, and sovereignty of any island.This short declaration just supports the ocean territory of China (12 ocean miles from baselines) that couldn´t be used to claim sovereignty of any island.

    If someone doesn´t compare the Chinese declaration with the Vietnamese declaration 10 days later, he could easily take mistakes on thought about this issue.
    Last edited by Wehrmacht; 29 Apr 09, at 13:33.

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    @ middle earth:

    The content of Pham Van Dong's diplomatic note to Premier Zhou Enlai is as follows:

    "Comrade Prime Minister,

    We have the honour to bring to your knowledge that the Government of the DRVN acknowledges and approves the declaration dated 4th September, 1958 of the Government of the PRO fixing the width of the Chinese territorial waters. The Government of the DRVN respects this decision and will give instructions to its State bodies to respect the 12-mile width of the territorial waters of China in all their relations in the maritime field with the PRC. I address to you, comrade Prime Minister, the assurance of my distinguished consideration".

    First, did DRVN PM mention that he agreed all PRC government's claims? Clearly, he just agreed to respect the 12-mile width of the territorial waters of PRC.

    Second, your logic is faulty as the Paracel Islands was under the South Vietnam government, which was recognised by the UN at that time. Thus, your ASSUMPTION on sovereignty transfer from DRVN to PRC is invalid and not enforceable as it is based on an invalid statement.
    Do you recognize Vietnam's sovereignty over Hainan island, if Japan PM agrees Vietnam's rights there and Japan will take over China in the future?
    Even under Vietnam's law, such a statement by the PM is not recognised by its people. So, it is totally invalid.

    Third, by assuming that DRVN had the right to transfer sovereignty, you VIRTUALLY AGREE that the Paracel Islands belong to Vietnam in general.

    I would recommend you to visit this site VietWill - Defending Vietnamese lives and borders in the South China Sea - Regarding the 1958 Letter by Pham Van Dong [Update] to see how the world thinks about this case.
    Last edited by KelvinViet; 29 Apr 09, at 15:58.

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by KelvinViet View Post
    @ middle earth:

    The content of Pham Van Dong's diplomatic note to Premier Zhou Enlai is as follows:

    "Comrade Prime Minister,

    We have the honour to bring to your knowledge that the Government of the DRVN acknowledges and approves the declaration dated 4th September, 1958 of the Government of the PRO fixing the width of the Chinese territorial waters. The Government of the DRVN respects this decision and will give instructions to its State bodies to respect the 12-mile width of the territorial waters of China in all their relations in the maritime field with the PRC. I address to you, comrade Prime Minister, the assurance of my distinguished consideration".

    First, did DRVN PM mention that he agreed all PRC government's claims? Clearly, he just agreed to respect the 12-mile width of the territorial waters of PRC.

    Second, your logic is faulty as the Paracel Islands was under the South Vietnam government, which was recognised by the UN at that time. Thus, your ASSUMPTION on sovereignty transfer from DRVN to PRC is invalid and not enforceable as it is based on an invalid statement.
    Do you recognize Vietnam's sovereignty over Hainan island, if Japan PM agrees Vietnam's rights there and Japan will take over China in the future?
    Even under Vietnam's law, such a statement by the PM is not recognised by its people. So, it is totally invalid.

    Third, by assuming that DRVN had the right to transfer sovereignty, you VIRTUALLY AGREE that the Paracel Islands belong to Vietnam in general.

    I would recommend you to visit this site VietWill - Defending Vietnamese lives and borders in the South China Sea - Regarding the 1958 Letter by Pham Van Dong [Update] to see how the world thinks about this case.
    Your argument is based on Spratly islands belong to Vietnam, may I ask when Vietnam controlled the islands. What I know is the islands returned to China’s control after WW2 in 1947 not to mention ancient relics and documents. There was no transfer of territory between China and North Vietnam, it is only an acknowledgement of China’s stance on this issue, Vietnam couldn’t give away what didn’t belong to it, it was not in South Vietnam’s control either. The Soviet split Outer Mongolia from China when China needed Soviet support, China doesn’t say now it is an invalid agreement because we don’t need your support. In the case of Vietnam, you say I no longer need your support, so any commitment I made earlier is invalid. Besides, China’s territory doesn’t need your approval if it really is, it is a gesture by your government. It is a dispute, I tell you again, you have your claims, we have our own. Don’t be so sure you’re the owner of these islands.

    I don’t like to drag the arguments on, nothing is settled here, since you have said so much, it is impolite to offer nothing back. Next time I may not be so polite to make a reply, sorry, nothing French.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by KelvinViet View Post
    I would recommend you to visit this site VietWill - Defending Vietnamese lives and borders in the South China Sea - Regarding the 1958 Letter by Pham Van Dong [Update] to see how the world thinks about this case.
    The world couldn't care less about these temper tantrums. Otherwise, there would be whole navies in the area.
    Chimo

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by middle earth View Post
    may I ask when Vietnam controlled the islands.
    1936, Vietnam , as a colony of the French , has built a radio station on Spratly islands.

    If you want, i can give you the image that was taken in 193x in Spratlys : the Vietnamese together with the French officers saluted under the flag.

    As i said, before 1988, China occupied NOTHING in Spratlys and also had no actions on those islands.
    Last edited by Wehrmacht; 29 Apr 09, at 18:12.

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    @ middle earth:
    I also want to know more precisely who returned the Spratly Islands to PRC, and under what circumstance.
    I would be glad to hear and see your concrete "ancient relics and documents".
    By the way, I did not offend you personally, so dont be upset and be confident to show me your evidences.

  15. #45
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    Reading press releases and other statements by the Vietnamese government during their recent visit to China. clearly, the South China sea issue is not being discussed nor protested by the Vietnamese government.

    In addition, Vietnam government sided with the Chinese government against the Baselines Bill recently passed the Philippines. While fan boys can argue until the cows come home in the net, I am interested to see real actions.
    Last edited by xinhui; 01 May 09, at 01:56.

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