Thread: Best response to Somali piracy?

Originally Posted by Dreadnought

You'll have to excuse some of us as we are tired of watching troops fight an enemy without rules while the rest of the world expects costly missions, due dilligence and media approval while they have zero rules, due dilligence and could care less about how they appear to the rest of the world.

Maybe if your children were facing such odds you may see a different perspective.

Not having children, not planning to.

I was not talking about the wars. I was talking about the angry mob on this thread calling for bombs on "pirate bases".


The thing is: the people who fight without rules against you do it because they don't want to see you there.

The thing is: the people who fight without rules against you do it because they don't want to see you there.



*And that may be although 1 big problem. International waters and any country that conducts import/export trade had a legal and moral right to traverse the waters. Where they operate is far beyond their 12 mile zone. Ergo illegal wether they like it or not.

*Lets stop with the romantic guise of pirates from the 18th and 19th century and call it what it is...terrorism of foreign assests in the 21st century that have a legal right to traverse the waters so the terrorists reap exactly what they sow...violent behavior.

You might as well give the green light to every nation to conduct terrorism close to their home waters of all countries foreign assets. Ergo WWIII because these countries are going to protect their assests no matter what the media or people like you approve of. Its against Maritime Law which is what civilization follows in the pursuit of the common good.

Originally Posted by Dreadnought

The thing is: the people who fight without rules against you do it because they don't want to see you there.



*And that may be although 1 big problem. International waters and any country that conducts import/export trade had a legal and moral right to traverse the waters. Where they operate is far beyond their 12 mile zone. Ergo illegal wether they like it or not.

*Lets stop with the romantic guise of pirates from the 18th and 19th century and call it what it is...terrorism of foreign assests in the 21st century that have a legal right to traverse the waters so the terrorists reap exactly what they sow...violent behavior.

You might as well give the green light to every nation to conduct terrorism close to their home waters of all countries foreign assets. Ergo WWIII because these countries are going to protect their assests no matter what the media or people like you approve of.

They are thieves, not terrorists. Ok? Thieves, robbers, pirates, hijackers, whatever. Not terrorists.

Originally Posted by entropy

They are thieves, not terrorists. Ok? Thieves, robbers, pirates, hijackers, whatever. Not terrorists.

Maybe in your book but the rest of the world seems to think other. Ok?

From the dictionary:

terrorism


Acts of violence committed by groups that view themselves as victimized by some notable historical wrong. Although these groups have no formal connection with governments, they usually have the financial and moral backing of sympathetic governments. Typically, they stage unexpected attacks on civilian targets, including embassies and airliners, with the aim of sowing fear and confusion

ergo...TERRORISTS!

*That is unless you plan on readvocating Noah Webster and rewriting the dictionary based upon your opinions.

Originally Posted by entropy

They are thieves, not terrorists. Ok? Thieves, robbers, pirates, hijackers, whatever. Not terrorists.

If all they did was rob ships then they woul be thieves once they resort to taking hostages and using terror to gain payment they become terrorists.

Originally Posted by Merlin

Of course shipping companies can have Blackwater people on voyages. That would jack up the shipping cost which has already been cut to rock bottom. In that case, they may just as well go around Africa instead of going through Suez Canal.

You hit a very important nail on the head: increased cost of delivered goods. That in itself could have destabilizing consequences at some levels which is not going to help anybody.

Whatever the solution is, it has to be cheap AND effective.

Forcing traffic around the Horn would really f*** things up for a whole bunch of people.

William

Originally Posted by Dreadnought

Maybe in your book but the rest of the world seems to think other. Ok?

What rest of what world?

I've only seen some Americans saying that. Your "rest of the world" seems to think they're thieves, or holds other opinions. I guess the people portraited in Darwin's Nightmare have some sympathy for them.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/terrorism

Guess you are digging hard to make them become terrorists. But the word "highwayman" is far more better suited.

Seems that my paranoia is justified. Some people indeed do abuse the word.

Originally Posted by Dreadnought

Maybe in your book but the rest of the world seems to think other. Ok?

From the dictionary:

terrorism


Acts of violence committed by groups that view themselves as victimized by some notable historical wrong. Although these groups have no formal connection with governments, they usually have the financial and moral backing of sympathetic governments. Typically, they stage unexpected attacks on civilian targets, including embassies and airliners, with the aim of sowing fear and confusion

ergo...TERRORISTS!

*That is unless you plan on readvocating Noah Webster and rewriting the dictionary based upon your opinions.

Nope. They want money. They use fear and confusion to get money. A knife-toting street thug does the same.
The violence is a means, not a goal.

Originally Posted by BadKharma

If all they did was rob ships then they woul be thieves once they resort to taking hostages and using terror to gain payment they become terrorists.

Robbing is terror. The sheer terror in the eyes of the victim makes him/her hand over the money.

Bank robbers often take hostages. Are they terrorists?

sounds like salem witch hunt all over again.

Originally Posted by entropy

Nope. They want money. They use fear and confusion to get money. A knife-toting street thug does the same.
The violence is a means, not a goal.

Sorry to disapoint you but the firing of any weapon against a soverign countries flagged asset in International waters is terrorism. A knife toating thug dont steal a 50,000 ton vessel, kill crew members and then demand a ransome for its release.


Try what they are doing with a jet airliner and see what they call it as well. It wont be piracy. It is terrorism.


*Tell you what you go hijack either a cargo ship, airliner, communtiy bus or other, kill a crew member, pilot, passenger, driver etc and when they catch you kindly relay to them that you are not a terrorist. See just how far that gets you in the civilized world. If you can recall the
Achille Lauro and the passenger (Leone Kilinghoffer) that was shot and dumped overboard I assure you they were not charged as what you call "Thugs". They were terrorists and so are these people.

Originally Posted by Dreadnought

Sorry to disapoint you but the firing of any weapon against a countries asset is terrorism. A knife toating thug dont steal a 50,000 ton vessel, kill crew members and then demand a ransome for its release.


Try what they are doing with a jet airliner and see what they call it as well. It wont be piracy. It is terrorism.

Exactly

Originally Posted by Dreadnought

Sorry to disapoint you but the firing of any weapon against a countries asset is terrorism. A knife toating thug dont steal a 50,000 ton vessel, kill crew members and then demand a ransome for its release.


Try what they are doing with a jet airliner and see what they call it as well. It wont be piracy. It is terrorism.

Who are "they"?
Hijacking an airliner and trying to sell it to the Tamil Tigers is theft.
Hijacking an airliner and demanding the release of your "brothers" from prison, now that's terrorism.

Oh, and what tonnage does the vessel have to have before the hijacker becomes a terrorist? 25.000 ton?
Is robbing a train, when the train is government-owned, terrorism?

Can't see the Somalians further any political or religious goals.

Sorry, saw you edited.

To add: why would it be terrorism?