View Poll Results: Best response to Somali piracy?

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  • Large-scale military action against pirate vessels and their bases of operations

    55 49.55%
  • Smaller-scale measures such as increased patrols and deterrence

    23 20.72%
  • Cargo and merchant ships should take it upon themselves to provide their own security

    15 13.51%
  • Other (specify)

    18 16.22%
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Thread: Best response to Somali piracy?

  1. #91
    Regular reasonmclucus's Avatar
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    Active response

    Increased water (surface and submarine) and air (including UAVs) patrols should be part of the response, but they should be combined with countries placing armed marines or soldiers on ships carrying their flags. An old WWII tactic for dealing with submarines might be helpful. Decoy ships could be used to attract hijackers to be captured or killed.

    The U.N., or shipping nations, could require that all craft in shipping lanes have running lights and some type of transponder such as aircraft carry. Any craft without lights or transponders could be sunk without warning.

    U.S Navy SEALS should be given the opportunity to practice their skills, although possibly in a way that wouldn't indicate obvious sabotage. For example, they might attempt to contaminate fuel or drill holes in boats. Setting what would appear as accidental fires could reduce the ability of pirates to operate.

    The possibility of a rescue mission to free some hostages and recover some ships should be seriously considered.
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  2. #92
    Military Professional BadKharma's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by reasonmclucus View Post
    The U.N., or shipping nations, could require that all craft in shipping lanes have running lights and some type of transponder such as aircraft carry. Any craft without lights or transponders could be sunk without warning.
    What does the UN have to do with the situation? Involving them will only mean no action taken against a threat that should be eliminated.
    Quote Originally Posted by reasonmclucus View Post
    U.S Navy SEALS should be given the opportunity to practice their skills, although possibly in a way that wouldn't indicate obvious sabotage. For example, they might attempt to contaminate fuel or drill holes in boats. Setting what would appear as accidental fires could reduce the ability of pirates to operate.
    Subterfuge? Do you really think that will be a deterrent? A strong message needs to be sent to these criminals that their actions will not be tolerated.

  3. #93
    Banned SnowLeopard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by reasonmclucus View Post
    Increased water (surface and submarine) and air (including UAVs) patrols should be part of the response, but they should be combined with countries placing armed marines or soldiers on ships carrying their flags. An old WWII tactic for dealing with submarines might be helpful. Decoy ships could be used to attract hijackers to be captured or killed......
    Maybe......or maybe not.

    History tends to show that "Q-ships" were marginally successful in World War One and practically useless in WW II. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Q-ship
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  4. #94
    Senior Contributor Swift Sword's Avatar
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    William, The above point to good thoughts no doubt but would you not agree that by doing this we would be just as bad as Iran with Hamas, Hezbollah and all the others? That is not to say the ideas dont have good intentions.
    Dreadnought,

    There is plenty of precedent for bringing some of the bad guys over to our side.

    To name a few: Baratarian Pirates were of assistance to then Col. Jackson at New Orleans, there were Kit Carson scouts in Vietnam, former Iraqi Insurgents have been in the U.S. employ, etc., etc. and it was all considered well and good.

    Some of Somali pirates are no doubt capable of being rehabilitated into instruments suitable to the forwarding of U.S. policy in the region.

    There are very likely a few Somali patriots and nationalists among these pirates and perhaps we ought to feel them out. They might be bought out at a reasonable price and put to good use.

    Possible scenarios:

    1. In cooperation with whoever we choose to recognize for government in Somalia, some of these pirates might be mustered into some sort of nascent Somali Coast Guard type of formation to aid in starting to restore order to the area and combat some of the problems in those waters.

    2. Al Qaeda and other Jihadists have been known to operate in Somalia and neighboring countries. Some of these pirates may be suitable material to act as privateers in the ongoing struggle against terror in the region.

    3. Under various and sundry international convention, rehabbed Somali pirates might be useful as corsairs against slave traders.

    4. Slightly more outlandish but quite possibly legal: given the state of relations between North Korea and the U.S., there may be some use for the pirates on that front as well. Suppose a Korean merchant loaded with Taepo Dong 2 parts and technicians was headed to Iran. We might legally have some of these pirates sail on over and put the squeeze on them...quietly, of course . I believe that there is precedent for this sort of thing and it is acceptable under various and sundry convention. Think about it: one small boat could cause one big pain in the ass for two Big Pain In the Ass Rouge States.

    Just a few thoughts to clarify what I had in mind. Imaginative, arguably, but not without precedent.

    I think that a counter piracy strategy of convoy, coop, capture and/or kill would do the trick.

    Regards,

    William
    Pharoh was pimp but now he is dead. What are you going to do today?

  5. #95
    Professor (retired) Senior Contributor Merlin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Merlin View Post
    While longer term efforts are made on land to have a government that can keep security in Somalia, I like the stop gap idea of a convoy system.

    If ships are coming down the Red Sea, escorted conveys through the Red Sea and the Gulf of Aden can be together. After the Horn of Africa, these conveys can be spit according to the directions, say some going East, and some going South. ..
    I wrote the above yesterday. I now notice Wall St Journal has the same idea, of convoys.

    Convoys Are an Answer to Piracy

    Apr 14, 2009 [WSJ] PETER D. ZIMMERMAN
    Piracy never really disappeared; it plagues maritime commerce as much today as it did in the Caribbean in the 18th century and on the Barbary Coast in the 19th century. But until recently, modern-day pirates mostly rustled some cargo and let their captives continue, leaving the crew unharmed.

    That's changed. Pirates in the waters off Somalia, and from the Gulf of Aden to south of the equator, are no longer simply interested in seizing ships and cargo. Now they are out for the multimillion dollar ransoms paid by ship operators to rescue their crews. They've come up with a good business model, too, with a low cost of entry: a fishing trawler to serve as a mother ship, a few high-speed inflatable boats, weapons and crews to seize their targets. Very few of these thieves have paid for their crimes despite the presence of a small fleet of warships in the region. One way to deal with the threat is to revive convoys.

    To be sure, in different circumstances naval patrols have worked. Towards the end of the 20th century, pirates in the Strait of Malacca, which links the Indian and Pacific Oceans, not only captured ships, but crews that resisted were often murdered and their ships renamed and reflagged. Gradually, naval patrols by Indonesia, Malaysia and Singapore made life more dangerous for the pirates and safer for mariners. In 2007, the Strait was declared "piracy free." But those patrols were feasible because the Strait is a long, narrow passage never more than 150 miles wide.

    Down by the Horn of Africa, however, patrolling one million square miles of ocean with the 60 vessels on station is an impossibility. A radar mounted on the top mast of a destroyer is unlikely to "see" a small rubber boat 25 miles away and can search only about 2,000 square miles -- about one-fifth of 1% -- of the sea in which pirates prowl. The rescue of Captain Richard Phillips by naval Special Forces operating from the USS Bainbridge, and the recent rescue by French commandos of a captured yacht, demonstrate that aggressive maritime policing can thwart pirate goals. But it is far better to prevent attacks in the first place. ...

    Thirty thousand ships a year, roughly 100 a day, 50 in each direction, transit the waters off the coast of Somalia. One convoy in each direction, each day, alternating between fast ships and slower ones, and each accompanied by four or five escort vessels, would do the job. There would then be only two targets a day in each area of coast for the pirates to find, instead of 100. When marauders approach a convoy, they could be warned off by the escorts or destroyed if they attack. ....

    Mr. Zimmerman is professor emeritus at King's College London and a former chief scientist of the U.S. Senate Foreign Relations Committee.
    Last edited by Merlin; 15 Apr 09, at 15:04.

  6. #96
    Banned SnowLeopard's Avatar
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    Well, before one goes off and gets all their eggs in one basket, they ought to be aware that the Agulhas Current is a rather infamous region for encountering rogue waves, waves that can appear in an instant and snuff out a decent size tanker before a distress signal can be sent off.

    If it's not one thing, it's another.
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  7. #97
    Regular sealion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maclint View Post
    They arent pirates, they are trying to protect their waters. See

    http://informationclearinghouse.info/article22399.htm
    u.n.c.l.o.s. is very clear (international treaty) even those ships were passing through their waters 0.01 nm out of the coast line those ships were making "innocence passage" which means noone has rights over those ships
    so in any kind of mean they are pirates. people fighting for rights , have to convince for their rights and they didnt . they show only piracy not their problems!!
    Solon you Greeks will be for ever kids,you forget your history and you start all over again(Plato)

  8. #98
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    Big business continues to make billions in profits and is very vocal about "keeping the government out of the private sector" until they get in trouble or start losing money, then they holler for the Federal Reserve, the Navy, the Marines, the Army, the Agriculture Dept., whoever, TO DO SOMETHING TO PROTECT THEIR PROFITS, OR PREFERABLY, JUST GIVE THEM BIG WADS OF TAXPAYER MONEY.

    Let them hire PRIVATE SECTOR security.

  9. #99
    Defense Professional Dreadnought's Avatar
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    Let them hire PRIVATE SECTOR security.


    Totally Agreed. A Blackwater type company could expand by leaps and bounds and who knows Lloyds of London could even make that stipulation in their insurance contracts. Not exactly Blackwater mind you but along those lines to garentee security and safety of passage. At that point we turn our backs to whatever firepower they wish to employ aboard their vessel and however they wish to deal with the Somali's.
    Fortitude.....The strength to persist...The courage to endure.

  10. #100
    Ken
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    All Three

    All ships, boats, even canoes and kiaks should be armed for self defense.
    All Nations that have a Navy MUST make safe shipping a priority.
    The pirates know most ships are unarmed making them easy targets.
    Track the prates down no matter where they try to hide.

  11. #101
    Professor (retired) Senior Contributor Merlin's Avatar
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    Of course shipping companies can have Blackwater people on voyages. That would jack up the shipping cost which has already been cut to rock bottom. In that case, they may just as well go around Africa instead of going through Suez Canal.

  12. #102
    JRT
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stitch View Post
    That, and a few AC-130U's based out of Garcia should take care of it . . .
    It seems as though the AC130 might be an excellent tool for the job. It's a moderate cost resource, can spend a lot of time loitering on patrol, can take out pirates caught in the act, and is unable to pick up any survivors. But those have been in such heavy demand/use that the resources may not available for this activity.

    According to this Air Force fact sheet, they had eight AC130H and seventeen AC130U as of October 2007. And some of those may be unavailable based on the info in this excerpt from a story (full text here) on the AC-27s that will replace the AC130s: "...urgency of the AC-27J program is a direct result of the large number of AC-130s in AFSOC’s fleet that need new centerline wing boxes because they have been flown at four times the anticipated utilization rate..."




    .

  13. #103
    Senior Reader Senior Contributor entropy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JOgershok View Post
    Hetze: Social agitation?
    Indeed. Everyone who needs a bullet becomes one.

    Even on this forum there are those agitated by the term.

  14. #104
    Senior Reader Senior Contributor entropy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bolo121 View Post
    Why? Nobody is interested in Somalia so extensive (and expensive) nation building and such is out.
    Just killing them at sea is not enough, their bases need to be destroyed so the villages need to burn.
    Keep burning the pirates out until they get the idea. Steal all you like but at the end of the day you and yours wont live to enjoy it.
    Burning villages...

    Glad you're honest you're an armchair warrior.

    Killing the thieves at sea, very well. Using the cheap mantra of "we'll kill their friends until they realize that piracy is wrong and one should be super duper liberal" is what got the States in trouble in Iraq and elsewhere.

    And then there are those using the T-word.

  15. #105
    Senior Reader Senior Contributor entropy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadnought View Post
    Let them hire PRIVATE SECTOR security.


    Totally Agreed. A Blackwater type company could expand by leaps and bounds and who knows Lloyds of London could even make that stipulation in their insurance contracts. Not exactly Blackwater mind you but along those lines to garentee security and safety of passage. At that point we turn our backs to whatever firepower they wish to employ aboard their vessel and however they wish to deal with the Somali's.
    Good idea. At least better than throwing bombs at villages.

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