View Poll Results: Best response to Somali piracy?

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  • Large-scale military action against pirate vessels and their bases of operations

    55 49.55%
  • Smaller-scale measures such as increased patrols and deterrence

    23 20.72%
  • Cargo and merchant ships should take it upon themselves to provide their own security

    15 13.51%
  • Other (specify)

    18 16.22%
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Thread: Best response to Somali piracy?

  1. #16
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    Response to Somali Piracy

    It's time the United Nations went to sea with a coastal task force along the new "Barbary Coast" and enforced a "no sail" zone, plus a convoy system of some kind. Drone -strikes on identified "support facilities" ashore. Whatever it is - has to be UN. "Coalition of Willing" won't work in this part of the world. Is the US willing to be part of it?

  2. #17
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    At any given time, 20+ warships patrol the over two million square miles of ocean off Somalia trying - and largely failing - to protect merchant vessels. These warships often represent the last word in modern naval war fighting technology. The pirates are nothing more than tribesmen equipped with clapped out fishing boats, machetes, RPG's and AK-47s. Yet the admirals tell us they cannot discharge as basic (perhaps THE most basic - and important) a naval function as the protection of trade from these Somali ruffians in that vast ocean. I think the taxpayers of the world have a right to ask what, then, is all taxpayer money spent on navies been spent ON over the last six decades since WWII?

    The US Navy for example still has thirteen or so carrier battlegroups, which do little to justify their cost and seem to spend most of their time sailing about waiting for the Imperial Japanese Navy to show up. Using an Arleigh Burke class destroyer to engage four Somali bandits in a dingy is hardly a proportionate or economic response. It seems to me peacetime admirals always succumb to their love of parading their bands on the quarter deck of their vast nuclear powered carriers, or lobbying for ships whose size (The USS Bainbridge for example weighs as much as a WWII cruiser) would make them sitting ducks in WWII let alone in the age of massed supersonic long range robot missiles. Like Jellicoe, they see the size of the ocean and smallness of their ships and like him they shrug there shoulder in a helpless and defeatist way and say they simply cannot guard that much ocean with so few ships.

    But think about it. About 20,000 merchant ships a year (50-60 per day) transit the Gulf of Aden. If you were to organise one convoy each way, for example, every three hours (i.e. sixteen convoys a day) of whatever number of merchant ships guarded by one warship then the problem becomes a lot easier. For the Somali pirates the merchant ships would largely vanish from the ocean and second, when they did see a merchant ship the next thing they would see would be an escort bearing down on them - so the pirates would come conveniently to the escorts to be destroyed or otherwise at leisure, rather than having expensive warships running hither and yon searching for the pirate skiffs. And since practically any warship would be 100% lethal to the pirates, you could easily build twenty - or thirty or forty or even fifty - long range, 22+ knot sloops equipped with a medium helicopter, machine guns and auto-cannons and a crew of around 40-50 men for the cost of ONE Arleigh Burke destroyer.

    The dirty word in all the above is, of course, ESCORTS.

    So the real question is - in an era where everyone talks endlessly about asymmetric warfare, why have these ships not been built already? Where is the failure of imagination and what institutional barriers need to fall?

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ironduke View Post
    What do you think are the pros and cons of each approach?

    I chose large scale military operations, what I think would be best, is coordinated use of SAS, Seals, Delta ... other countries Special Units ...

    take out the pirates QUIETLY .... the Pirates disappear, there families etc ...

    make examples of a few, especially the ones mouthing off in the latest news stories about how USA will be the one crying next, US no 1 enemy now .... we will treat crews of US ships like pirates were treated .....

    and if subtle does not work ..... carpet bombed with B52's from 30,000 feet

    If You Kill Enough of Them, They Will Stop Fighting .... Curtis LeMay, US Air Force




    Kidnapped US captain freed; snipers kill 3 pirates

    "Every country will be treated the way it treats us. In the future, America will be the one mourning and crying," Abdullahi Lami, one of the pirates holding a Greek ship anchored in the Somali town of Gaan, told The Associated Press. "We will retaliate (for) the killings of our men."

    "From now on, if we capture foreign ships and their respective countries try to attack us, we will kill them (the hostages)," Jamac Habeb, a 30-year-old self-proclaimed pirate, told the AP from one of Somalia's piracy hubs, Eyl.

    Habeb said U.S. forces have "become our No. 1 enemy."

    yahoo has updated the story since I posted this else where ... so the quote os not valid ... (why do they do that instead of making a new link)
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  4. #19
    Senior Contributor BenRoethig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by osplant View Post
    UN sanctions against Somalia as per International Law of the Sea.
    They have no government or economy to sanction.
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  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ironduke View Post
    In a couple of other threads, I mentioned the deployment of two USMC carriers to sink their vessels and launch raids against their bases of operations. I never said anything about occupation. Quite simply, make it very costly for the pirates.

    Yeah that ... no need to occupy anything that can be hit with an air strike,

    boots on the ground in a night time raid that leaves several dead and others wondering about a new form of employment ....
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  6. #21
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    And since practically any warship would be 100% lethal to the pirates, you could easily build twenty - or thirty or forty or even fifty - long range, 22+ knot sloops equipped with a medium helicopter, machine guns and auto-cannons and a crew of around 40-50 men for the cost of ONE Arleigh Burke destroyer.
    Come on now, are you serious? That cost estimate is impossible. An Arleigh Burke class destroyer comes in at what, roughly a billion dollars? You suggest that they can build 20+ ships that can carry a helicopter and a crew of 40-50 at that same cost? Have you seen what LCS-1 and LCS-2 are coming in at? I have ZERO faith in the ability of the USN to build anything that can fit that role for 50 million or even 100 million. Not if you want to put a helicopter on it.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by HKDan View Post
    I have ZERO faith in the ability of the USN to build anything that can fit that role for 50 million or even 100 million. Not if you want to put a helicopter on it.

    I Have to agree with you there. Get the Chinese to build them, they'll be like 15% of the price the corrupt US military-industrial complex rips of US taxpayers for.

  8. #23
    Senior Contributor Swift Sword's Avatar
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    I voted "Other".

    A three point plan:

    1. Convoy merchant traffic. As I pointed out on another thread and has been mentioned here, this is a proven, effective, low cost offset. Only myopic, brain dead morons would not use this tactic.

    2. In areas where volume of traffic does not make convoys practical, aggressive air patrols, possibly with UAVs, would be the order of the day. Again, a proven tactic: air power has been effective at hunting down small numbers of marauders in large areas of water in the past.

    Too, perhaps a Q ship or three just to keep the bad guys off balance. Maybe an innocent looking yacht staffed with deadly female commandos or some such.

    3. Recognize the fact that the piracy off the Horn of Africa exists as a byproduct of regional instability and take steps to address this. What steps these may be is open to debate and hard to asses but I am sure there is something. We could start with some security advisers with a modest budget if Mogadishu would go for it. I understand the situation in Somolia is desperate so even a modest effort may yield positive results.

    Something tells me that we are not going to have much luck bombing, murdering and torturing the pirates into submission. We tried that on the terrorists for the better part of a decade and they still manage to blow stuff up.

    Just this amateur's opinion...

    William
    Last edited by Swift Sword; 14 Apr 09, at 13:42.
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  9. #24
    Senior Contributor HKDan's Avatar
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    3. Recognize the fact that the piracy off the Horn of Africa exists as a byproduct of regional instability and take steps to address this. What steps these may be is open to debate and hard to asses but I am sure there is something. We could start with some security advisers with a modest budget if Mogadishu would go for it. I understand the situation in Somolia is desperate so even a modest effort may yield positive results.
    Yes, this is probably where the real solution will ultimately lie. Even if the piracy issue is taken care of on its own it is only a matter of time before some other major problem comes out of Somalia unless that disaster of a place makes some progress towards actually being a country again.


    Too, perhaps a Q ship or three just to keep the bad guys off balance. Maybe an innocent looking yacht staffed with deadly female commandos or some such.
    This yacht staffed with deadly female commandos will likely spend a little too much time in my thoughts. Mmmm.

  10. #25
    Defense Professional Dreadnought's Avatar
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    IMO, We just recieved a textbook example of how to deal with them.
    Fortitude.....The strength to persist...The courage to endure.

  11. #26
    Senior Contributor Swift Sword's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadnought View Post
    IMO, We just recieved a textbook example of how to deal with them.
    Dreadnought,

    I have Admiral Sims' magnum opus on my desk as you read this !

    Regards,

    William
    Pharoh was pimp but now he is dead. What are you going to do today?

  12. #27
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    Short Term

    Convoys with naval escort and armed troops on some of the merchant ships.

    Long Term

    1. Listen to the concerns of the pirates/fishermen and see what can be done about it. Get them back to fishing and maybe stop the massive trawlers of the developed nations from raping/pillaging the sea's in the area.

    2. Better goverment in the Somali.

    Every time the developed world have used massive/military force, it creates more problems that come back to bite us at a later date. The developed world needs to employ the carrot and a big stick in combination. We all too often ignore the needs of the other side.

    Don't expect it be easy but the results should be longer lasting. But I expect the goverments of the developed nations probably prefer the current situation, having a large number of armed ships/troops in an area of importance (OIL) , now that troops are being removed from Iraq and other savage countries.

  13. #28
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    There is no single and simple solution to this problem. Every solution will present costs that will be politically and economically hard to absorb. Some just plain won't work: think Curtis Lemay and fire-bombing. Convoys do work in a WWII setting where we are shipping large amounts of cargo over a long period of time to a central location. They may also work in a setting like this in which there is a limited danger zone, but it is not a very efficient way to protect many ships going to diverse locations.

    For the short-term: The most efficient way to defend against these kind of pirates is to prevent them from boarding the ships in the first place. As I understand it, they typically use ropes with grappling hooks to climb aboard these ships. A cadre of 10-15 well-trained and properly armed security forces on each ship as it traverses the danger zone could prevent these untrained and poorly armed pirates from getting on board. The defenders would have the "high ground" and the ships could easily be fitted with lights and cameras so that fewer security forces could do the job. Also, the security forces and their arms could be removed from a ship after it had traversed the danger zone, reducing the overall cost of providing this security.

    There are two problems with this approach that I can see: 1) shipowner liability for the "mistakes" that even the best trained forces will make and 2) local laws which prohibit merchant ships with arms aboard from entering a port.

    As to the first, liability will be limited if we train them well and video what they do. Video of an armed man tossing a grappling hook onto a ship and trying to climb aboard would pretty well eliminate liability for using deadly force to repel the boarder. To paraphrase Dirty Harry, "he probably isn't collecting for the Red Cross."

    As to the second problem, the weapons could be loaded onto ships after they left a port and could be off-loaded with the security forces after the ship passed through the danger zone. If this won't solve the problem of these local laws, countries facing increased costs of getting goods or shortages of ships willing to come into your ports will eventually change their laws. This could be done very quickly and could be paid for by the shipping companies and those who use their services.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by blinky View Post

    2. Better goverment in the Somali.
    What more nation building, ....

    yeah because the has worked so well else where ........

    who is going to pay for that ?? I do not see China, Russia, or the EU stepping up .........

    track them. locate bases and either use B52's or Seal Teams and eliminate the threat .... I opt for Choice 1
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  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by anthonydg View Post

    There are two problems with this approach that I can see: 1) shipowner liability for the "mistakes" that even the best trained forces will make and 2) local laws which prohibit merchant ships with arms aboard from entering a port.


    simple transfer by chopper or boat once outside the danger zone, fly them back down to the next ship ...
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