Thread: Gate's defense realignment...as it pertains to the Navy

Originally Posted by gunnut

Sir, are you saying the current Flight IIA design shouldn't be stretched any more? How about just enlarge it a bit. Stretch it and make it beamier.

Well, What I would suggest is that before this takes place the ships are thoroughly inspected for wear. Hull life being what it is we wouldnt want to sink alot of money into a hull for upgrade when it only has say X amount of years remaining on the life of the hull as compared to constructing a brand new hull that is actually built to house those specific modifications and upgrades. Basically weighing the cost of what we will get out of the hull as compared to what we wish to get out of it. One thought that rings clear is that we dont want the structural reinforcement problems that were encountered during their last upgrades for soon we may end up with ships that are structure wise sound amidships but deficient in the bow area and the stern section (the areas of your armament guns,VLS arrangements and Helo ops). This was a problem before with their last hull refits as many had to come back to the yards for more reinforcement due to the upgrades, additional weight and being battered by the seas the way that they are.
I hope that makes sense in the way I worded it.

Yes, that does make sense. Thanks.

But you are still talking about refits and upgrades. How about building an enlarged and/or lengthened Burke hull from ground up to be the next CG? Will that be a design challenge?

Something like this: USA - Van Valkenburgh Class Cruiser

Originally Posted by gunnut

Yes, that does make sense. Thanks.

But you are still talking about refits and upgrades. How about building an enlarged and/or lengthened Burke hull from ground up to be the next CG? Will that be a design challenge?

Something like this: USA - Van Valkenburgh Class Cruiser

*A very nice design, I kinnda like it for a cruiser design.

Now if we could get funding for a newer CG it might look something like that. The guys here that take the time to illistrate/design them like Max,Hoss etc should submit them for review. You never know what may become of it. In most cases though funding and justification will be tough as the economy and budgets weigh much in these decisions and we still have plenty of ships in the process of upgrades. When I was last in Norfolk (Nov 2008) I was taken back by how many DDG's were in for upgrade, all in various stages of work up to completion. Literally I have not seen so many DDG's in one setting (not even in Phillys Reserve during the early 1980's before Reagans 600 ship concept). Needless to say they will be at it for quite some time and more then likely by the time they are finished it will be time to start all over again for newer upgrades. They will try to get as many active years out of the hulls as they can though since budgets are becoming tighter and tighter. The good part though is that Gates is not blind to the fact of needing a substancial naval force in being.

Are the new Burkes even "DDGs" any more? They are huge and pack a good wallop. If we ever see Flight III design, they will be as capable as the Ticos, but more stealthy.

I guess my question is do we even need to classify them as CG and DDG? Do we need CG? Ticos were DDGs until the "cruiser gap" appeared. Our navy seems to do quite well with this continuous low rate production of a very sound and proven design.

As for the size of the Navy under the Obama administration I suspect the fallowing:

-The Ford Class CVN will be reduced to one CVN and construction will be spread over an additional four years with an in service date pushed to 2021.
-The USN's supercarrier fleet will be reduced to 9 CVN's by decomissioning the Enterprise in 2013 and by decomissioning the Abraham Lincoln in 2016.
-CGX will be completely cancelled and there will be no replacement for the Ticonderoga class cruisers. All 22 Ticonderoga class guided missile cruisers will be decomissioned by 2019.
-SSBN(X) will be cancelled and there will be no replacement for the Ohio Class SSBN. All OHIO class SSBNs and SSGN's will be decomissioned by 2014.
-DDG-1000 class wil be limited to two ships.
-Future size of the fast attack submarine force will be reduced to 30 submarines. All Los Angeles Class SSN's will be decomissioned by 2018.
-Virginia Class SSN's will continue production at a rate of .5 to 1 per year with a class total of 27 boats.
-A total of twenty Littoral Combat Ships will be built, the remainder will be cancelled. All Oliver Hazard Perry class FFG and all Avenger class minehunters will be decomissioned by 2013.
-DDG-51X will start production in 2011 and continue to 2019 at the rate of two per year for a total of 18.
-LHD(X) will be cancelled
-San Antonio Class LPD will be limited to a total of nine ships
-A total of ten T-AKE 1 class ships will be completed

Under the agent of change, President Obama's stewardship, the USN by 2020 will probably look something like this:

9 CVN
2 DDG-1000
80 DDG-51
20 LCS
0 FFG
16 SSN (13 Virginia Class, 3 Seawolf class)
0 SSBN's
0 SSGN's
0 Minhunters
8 Wasp class LHD
9 San Antonio class LPD
20 Auxilary ships

Negative.

It takes more then Obama's administration to change the number of CVN's the US keeps in the fleet. Thats an act of Congress and I sincerely doubt that Congress will allow that to happen with such a young and inexperienced president more then likely he will consult Gates and Gates is not short sighted when it comed to US naval forces and power projection. You can also count on more then just one of the Gerald R. Ford class as the USN will slowly start pulling the aged CVN's off line. They allowed the Clinton administration to attempt it once(reduced to 11) and they werent happy about it and you think they will allow 2 more pulled from the fleet?. I also doubt the Frigates (FFG) disappearing under his administration as well that basically means no drug interdiction,coastal patrols or midshipman cruises IMO no going to happen. Again its not something that he controls, he cannot eliminate any class of warships without the CNO,Congress and the Sec of Defense. Obama appears to be a money man, he spoke greatly of pulling down the troops and we all saw where that went. Its doubfull he will attempt dictating ship numbers to the USN. Funding perhaps but not ship classes or numbers. Its not his call, he is the Commander in Chief of those forces but he does not determin what makes up those forces under his command. More experienced men make those choices for him.