The Invincible Class Carrier

**~~GraniteForge~~** · 20 Feb 09,, 04:36

Originally Posted by tinymarae

TopHatter's wish is Russia's command

Russians want another $700 mn for Gorshkov

The Indians ought to understand that no matter how much they pay, the Russians will want more and, when and if the ship is actually delivered, its probably going to be like most large Russian warships: a harbor queen, unfit for actual service.

At this point, depending on how their indigenous carrier is going, India should be talking to England about getting into the CVF project.

**Stan** · 20 Feb 09,, 09:10

Couldnt agree more.

The UK builds the first for the Indians and then they can build a couple themselves.... well thats the dream.

Hell I'd be willing to build them 2 type 45's and let them build themselves some more under license if it meant the UK could afford another 2/4 for ourselves.

**VarSity** · 20 Feb 09,, 09:29

Originally Posted by Stan

Couldnt agree more.

The UK builds the first for the Indians and then they can build a couple themselves.... well thats the dream.

Hell I'd be willing to build them 2 type 45's and let them build themselves some more under license if it meant the UK could afford another 2/4 for ourselves.

I am not all that clued up on naval equipment, but would we allow the Indians to get onboard the Type 45 and CVF boat? Wouldnt the stealth, radar and weapons tech on both be alot to give away?

Not that I am against getting closer to India, I just think unless they are willing to pay a huge amount of money its a bit of a one way deal.

**Stan** · 20 Feb 09,, 10:20

If we are ok about selling them the Eurofighter im ok with them having the tech on the type 45 - as long as they pay for it.

I dont suppose anything on the CVF would be that secret.

Varsity hows life in the military treating you?

**VarSity** · 20 Feb 09,, 10:40

Originally Posted by Stan

Varsity hows life in the military treating you?

Loving it! Its been a hard 7 weeks so far but am looking forward to getting back into it next week and getting some more field based stuff done.

I had my drill test Monday just gone and had my beret and cap badge awarded which was a fantastic experiance, cant stop walking around with it on and looking in the mirror

)

I was told in my last review that there is no reason I shouldnt be in the running for best recruit come the end of training which is a real boost, been working out some long term career plans and an award of some kind will go a long way to getting the first tour I want.

**Stan** · 24 Feb 09,, 09:03

cheeky gits

http://www.hindu.com/thehindu/holnus...0902231991.htm

**Kev 99** · 24 Feb 09,, 09:08

One wonders whose plans are in the greater 'shambles'.

I also find this bit:

"The aircraft carrier will be a big boost for the shipbuilding capability of the country. We will become the fourth nation besides the US, Russia and France to have the capability of building a carrier," an Indian Navy official told IANS.

hilarious, especially given Russia's single carrier with a less than stellar reputation and the state of the Admiral Gorskhov project. Also they might want to run that by Italy who have just built a new aircraft carrier and Spain who've built an LPD with a secondary function as an aircraft carrier.

**~~GraniteForge~~** · 24 Feb 09,, 15:58

Originally Posted by Kev 99

hilarious, especially given Russia's single carrier with a less than stellar reputation and the state of the Admiral Gorskhov project. Also they might want to run that by Italy who have just built a new aircraft carrier and Spain who've built an LPD with a secondary function as an aircraft carrier.

They have also overlooked the fact that India's native heavy industry was unable to supply all of the steel needed for the project:

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/NAVY/IAC.html

Rear Admiral Badhwar also said that the vessel's commissioning has been delayed by around two years - to 2014 - due to steel acquisition problems. The difficulty in the acquisition of steel was resolved with the import of approximately 1000 tonnes of steel "bulb-bars" from Russia, which is essential to begin the vessel's construction, after the Steel Authority of India Limited (SAIL) was unable to supply them. Naval officials stated that the cutting of steel for the vessel commenced in April 2005, but the project was subsequently delayed due to the lack of bulb bars. However, the officials were confident that SAIL and three other steel mills (two private and one public sector) who are collectively supplying around 20,000 tonnes of steel for the vessel, would be able to provide the additional 4000 tonnes of bulb bars required for the vessel.

**Dreadnought** · 24 Feb 09,, 16:17

As time moves on I think the Indian Navy wont be too pleased to get a carrier that was already 20+ years old even before the refit and the price has only gone up. It took them 5 years alone from the time launched by the Russian navy to commision the ship due to radar and guidance problems. Yes, she has been refitted but not completely rebuilt. In USN configuration the carrier would only have a service life of 35 years or so pending the quality of the overhaul/overhauls. So this will give you an idea of exactly how much "hull" life she could be expected to give in service. Thats one expensive carrier IMO.

**Dreadnought** · 24 Feb 09,, 16:26

IMO, I think the Indians will certainly benefit by building their own carriers because it will sustain growth among the private sectors such as steel, ship building,electronics,avation, armament as well as many other needs that they should be able to supply indigionously. I dont think they bargained for the deal they are getting now nor the delivery date that continues to change. It is however a major fault to underestimate ones own steel making capabilities when so much money and time has been spent and you are trying to give your navy the proper tools to do their repective jobs. In any case it is feasable that they will recognize their shortfalls and eliminate them for the future shipbuilding programs.

*Next carrier built will tell the tale of how effeciently they have learned their lessons.

**Stitch** · 24 Feb 09,, 18:19

I still say we should sell India a refitted/refurbished LHA, especially since we have one sitting in decom status (LHA 2, USS Saipan; she was only decommed a year and a half ago); it wouldn't take much to get her going again, and India could probably have a carrier within a year or two, instead of the 5-10 years it would take for them to build their own (or wait for the Russians to finish the Gorshkov).

Also, just saw this: apparently, there were rumors of a proposed sale of the USS Kittyhawk to the Indian Navy a year ago; one can still hope . . . . .

http://www.stratfor.com/analysis/ind...rrier_dynamics

**Kev 99** · 24 Feb 09,, 18:45

It's just forum rumours, there's nothing to them.

**Dreadnought** · 24 Feb 09,, 18:50

If rumors were true they could have had either John F. Kennedy or the Kitty Hawk but only rumors no more then just that.

**TopHatter** · 24 Feb 09,, 19:58

Originally Posted by tinymarae

TopHatter's wish is Russia's command

Russians want another $700 mn for Gorshkov

Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face...

The Indians really ought to tell the Russians to hit the bricks. This is highway robbery, nothing more.

Originally Posted by Dreadnought

If rumors were true they could have had either John F. Kennedy or the Kitty Hawk but only rumors no more then just that.

I still maintain that a supercarrier is far too much ship for the Indian Navy's budget and manpower.

Which is not to say that the Gorshkov hasn't been a gigantic money pit....