View Poll Results: Which is best non-AIP diesel submarine of world??

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  • Type 209 (Germany)

    38 47.50%
  • Oyashio (Japan)

    7 8.75%
  • Collins (Australia)

    17 21.25%
  • Kilo (USSR)

    15 18.75%
  • Walrus (Netherland)

    3 3.75%
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Thread: Which is best non-AIP diesel submarine in world??

  1. #1
    New Member oguzhanTR's Avatar
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    Which is best non-AIP diesel submarine in world??

    Displacement:
    1-Oyashio class (4000t)
    2-Kilo class (3900t)
    3-Collins class (3350t)
    4-Walrus class (2600t)
    5-Type 209 (1500t-1800t)

    Max. Operational Range:
    1-Type 209 (12,000nm)
    2-Collins class (11,500nm)
    3-Oyashio class (8,000nm)
    4-Walrus class (7,200nm)
    5-Kilo class (6,500nm)

    Max Speed(kt):
    1-Type 209 (23kt)
    2-Collins class (21kt)
    3-Walrus class (20kt)
    4-Oyashio class (20kt)
    5-Kilo class (20kt)

    Max Depth(m):
    1-Type 209 (540m)
    2-Oyashio class (420m)
    3-Walrus class (350m)
    4-Kilo class (300m)
    5-Collins class (300m)

    Armament:
    1-Type 209 (8 x 533mm tube)
    2-Kilo class (6 x 533mm tube)
    3-Oyashio class (6 x 533mm tube)
    4-Collins class (6 x 533mm tube)
    5-Walrus class (4 x 533mm tube)


    My View:
    1-----Type 209 (fast and the deadliest)
    2-----Oyashio (great hunter-killer)
    3-----Collins (great hunter-killer)
    4-----kilo (quite)
    5-----Walrus (pfff:P)

    Oyashio class


    Type 209



    Collins class


    Kilo class


    Walrus class

    Last edited by oguzhanTR; 30 Oct 08, at 20:06.

  2. #2
    Military Professional Shiny Capstar's Avatar
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    I'm no naval man but that is only a comparison of performance really, it doesn't take into account other systems, (sonar for example), other armaments (missiles), how quiet they are (even though I don't think there are public sources on this) etc etc

    Nice pics though.
    Nulli Secundus
    People always talk of dying for their country, and never of making the other bastard die for his

  3. #3
    New Member oguzhanTR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shiny Capstar View Post
    I'm no naval man but that is only a comparison of performance really, it doesn't take into account other systems, (sonar for example), other armaments (missiles), how quiet they are (even though I don't think there are public sources on this) etc etc

    Nice pics though.

    sure this is basic competition

  4. #4
    Military Professional Shiny Capstar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oguzhanTR View Post
    sure this is basic competition
    Gotcha
    Nulli Secundus
    People always talk of dying for their country, and never of making the other bastard die for his

  5. #5
    Senior Contributor kuku's Avatar
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    Which is the most profitable one on the list, as in the one sold the most and made the most profits )
    cheers

  6. #6
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    the kilo is probably the most profitable boat there other than the type 209

  7. #7
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    Good evening,


    Your view on the German boats is right. Those are magnificent vessels. Especially the 212, which I think is the most silent submarine in the world. (But it does have AIP)

    I think you're making a mistake on the Walrus-class. Those are great machines that are capable to outclass last upgrade LA-class nuclear subs. Their predecessors (Zwaardvis-class) were one of the best in the world to. Taiwan bought them, wich pissed of the Chinese government. Because they still dont have the boats capable of fighting these (over 35 year old) vessels.

    Special on the Dutch ships are the X-rudders. Most countries have + rudders. X rudders are significantly more difficult to build, but better capable of dealing with damage. There are less rudders needed to maintain steering capability.

    Diving depths are not right btw. The real depths are usually classified.

    Greetings
    Last edited by Baaper; 30 Oct 08, at 18:39.

  8. #8
    Official Thread Jacker Senior Contributor gunnut's Avatar
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    Can these SSKs do the same type of job that the old ocean going subs like Gatos and U-boats did in WW2? For example spending weeks on patrol on the open ocean.
    "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

  9. #9
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    Yes, they can.

    But in that time, it were more like 'diving boats'. They spent most of the time on the surface to dive away when something happened. It's not like that anymore, the boats stay under the waves most of the time.

    Big disadvantage of the non-nuclear boats is still the need for air used in the engines. But with the AIP (Air Independent Propulsion) they have an answer to that.
    I heard that a German 212A-type (with AIP) started on a trip in Kiel en reached the US without taking even one 'deep breath' on the way.

    Big advantage of the diesels is that they can be shut off. That means, total silence. A nucleair sub can never shut down the whole system, which makes them 'louder'.

    But with enough fuel on board diesel-subs can stay a very long period out on the open. (Not as long as a nuke ofcourse)

  10. #10
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    Victoria class Canada (formerly Upholder class UK)
    Displacement 2,455t
    Range 8,000miles (nautical miles?)
    max speed 20kt
    armament 6 533mm tubes 18 - mk48 torpedoes
    max depth over 200m

    Middle of the pack?

  11. #11
    Regular Rodinga's Avatar
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    The Collins class according to an ASC financial report also have facilities for the insertion of special forces squads

    also the subs have been upgraded with the AN/BYG-1 Combat Control System with mark 48 ADCAP Torpedos which are a match for US AIP subs
    Last edited by Rodinga; 03 Nov 08, at 05:36. Reason: addition of more info
    There is no such thing as free lunch

  12. #12
    New Member oguzhanTR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prairie Canuck View Post
    Victoria class Canada (formerly Upholder class UK)
    Displacement 2,455t
    Range 8,000miles (nautical miles?)
    max speed 20kt
    armament 6 533mm tubes 18 - mk48 torpedoes
    max depth over 200m

    Middle of the pack?
    i thought but it is really old fashioned.

  13. #13
    New Member oguzhanTR's Avatar
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    List of torpedoes by Subs.

    Victoria class: Mark 48
    Kilo class: Mostly 53 or 65 Asuw but a few armed with VA-111 Shkval
    Oyashio class: Type 89 torpedoes
    Collins class: Mark 48
    Walrus class: Mark 48
    Type 209: Tigerfish or Spearfish

  14. #14
    Senior Contributor
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    Collins-class. Any sub that can sneak up on a US destroyer and played "Down Under" by Men at Work down the sonar at them is a very good submarine.

  15. #15
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    The Collins and Oyashios have better combat systems and are likely considerably quieter.

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