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Reply With QuoteThis sounds like a job for C3. You want that ordered fast and C1 can wait? It's cheaper, so the MoD will probably have to go that way. For off the shelf, how about the VT multi-mission corvette that they drew up for the Greek Navy?
Recently I was looking at the slow development of the C class frigate destined to replace the type 23 in the future.
With the cut backs in the fleet at the moment I think its time the MOD looked at the past and took a leaf out of the type 21 package.
The class was designed to fulfil a requirement for a relatively cheap yet modern general purpose escort vessel to fill a projected gap in the number of escort hulls in the fleet. Many older vessels were rapidly approaching the end of their useful lives yet their replacements, the Type 42 destroyer and Type 22 frigate, would not be ready until the mid-to-late 1970s. The Admiralty design board were busy with the latter, therefore the Type 21 project was given to private shipyards Vosper Thornycroft and Yarrow. The unmistakably yacht-like and rakish lines were indicative of their commercial design. Their handsome looks combined with their impressive handling and acceleration lent itself to the class nickname of Porsches. The design was partially funded by the Royal Australian Navy who had originally intended to buy five vessels, but in the event did not purchase any. The first of the eight built, HMS Amazon, entered service in May 1974.
What the UK needs now is Hulls in the water to carry out work in areas that dont require state of the art solutions to simple problems.As originally built, the Type 21 design made use of a lot of 'off the shelf' technology, such as the old Sea Cat missile (combined with the Italian Alenia Orion-10X fire-control system as the GWS-24 system), the Wasp anti-submarine helicopter and marinised Rolls-Royce aircraft engines. Yet it also featured modern electronics such as the CAAIS (Computer Assisted Action Information System) system to integrate the ship's weapons and sensor systems and provide the crew with all the relevant information they required to fight the ship, as and when they needed it.
Including anti drug operations in Carribean, Anti pirate ops off Somalia and a wide range of other ops.
With off the shelf equipment the RN could increase the size of the fleet dramatically and relatively cheaply and keep the important hulls of the type 42/45/23 in action where they are needed.
Just a thought.
Naval Warfare Discussion is dying on WAB
This sounds like a job for C3. You want that ordered fast and C1 can wait? It's cheaper, so the MoD will probably have to go that way. For off the shelf, how about the VT multi-mission corvette that they drew up for the Greek Navy?
Last edited by perfectgeneral; 30 May 08, at 17:32. Reason: image
Market Economy is unfair: Rob Sugden
Perhaps that is a little overqualified for most jobs. I rather like the adaptation of the River class shown here:
Although I think that BVT/ShipCo might push for something flashy to attract export customers:
Market Economy is unfair: Rob Sugden
Except that the Type 21 can only be classified as a failure - see my thread below on worst warships of the modern era.Originally Posted by Stan
Yes, Sea Cat wasn't a great weapon system, and their original sensors weren't state of the art either. Pakistan upgraded these frigates with I think is a better SAM. They were off the shelf, so the navy didn't really stretch the envelope with these ships. At least they carried a medium caliber gun, something the first Type 22s didn't.
No growth margins, minimal combat capability, weak hulls and they cost more than the more capable ships they replaced.
The whole thing was botched.
I always found it interesting that Vospers was able to do so much better with just a slightly larger Type 21 in the Type 10.
its like everything now with our navy, either other budget and useless or over budget and botched i.e type 45, what use are they gonna be in a taskforce not enough of them, 6 of them?? one in refit one deployed elsewhere, one in port training 3 for escort duties, one gets hit, totally screwed. I would love to see more units and a version of the river class (extended) to act in the frigate/drug running in central america, gulf patrols to free up major units.
Can the last person to leave the UK please turn out the lights
cheers Jeff
Type 45 are replacing Type 42s, from 30 Sea Darts each to 48 Aster missiles each, from 12 ships to 6 or 8 ships. 30 x 12 = 360 missiles, 48 x 6 = 288 missiles or 48 x 8 = 384 missiles. Hopefully the RN will get 2 more ships.
OK but :
1. The Royal Navy DOESN'T have 12 x Type 42s in commission.
2. The Type 42s DON'T carry 30 x Sea Dart missiles each.
Soooo......
Last edited by Shipwreck; 05 Jun 08, at 18:49.
As I recall the British built 14. 2 were sunk in the Falklands, which left 12. As of this year 7 have been retired, so to keep pichking bones again, to be correct, the RN is down to 5 Type 42s left.
But when the Type 45 program commenced, there were 12 Type 42s in the fleet to be replaced.
As for the magazines of the Type 42s, their Sea Dart launchers and magazines could hold 30 Sea Dart missiles. I guess if one were picking bones again, 2 more could have been held on the launcher bringing the total to 32. But that would be unsafe.
Information from Wiki:
Armament:
Twin launcher for GWS-30 Sea Dart missiles,
4.5 inch (114 mm) Mark 8 naval gun,
2 x 3-tube STWS-1 launchers for 324 mm (12.75") A/S torpedoes,
2 x 20 mm Phalanx CIWS (not on Argentine ships),
2 x Oerlikon / BMARC 20 mm L/70 KBA guns in GAM-B01 single mounts,
4 x MM38 Exocet anti-ship missile launchers (only on Argentine ships)
Whether they ever carried as many Sea Dart missiles as they could is another story. They could.
Last edited by Sea Toby; 05 Jun 08, at 20:09.
another problem not enough sea darts left in servicable condition for remaining type 42's
Can the last person to leave the UK please turn out the lights
cheers Jeff
So what ???
And your source is ???
It appears I misread this from the Wiki, sorry. In Combat Fleets they said there were 22 missiles.
12 x 22 = 264 Sea Dart missiles.
I thought Type 42s carried 22 Sea Darts each.
Type 45 looks to be a very capable ship with growth potential.
Type 21 and Type 42 were both limited in that area. Let's hope RN can get at least 2 more Type 45s.
"Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.
The point is that area air defence destroyers could and should shoot down so many aircraft with their missiles. Thus missile load is important. It now appears 6 Type 45s can shoot down as many aircraft as 12 Type 42s. Otherwise, one would replace 12 area defence destroyers with 12 corvettes with the possibility of a zero shoot down capability or no area air defense.
Very cheap OPVs and a bit more expensive corvettes can be acquired without any air defence capabillity whatsoever that can replace ASW helicopters and provide a medium caliber gun along with surface to surface missies. Air defence and area air defence capabilities are much more expensive.
Last edited by Sea Toby; 05 Jun 08, at 21:12.
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