A new military alliance in the offing?Five-nation naval exercise begins
By Subir Bhaumik
BBC News, Calcutta
USS Nimitz
US Navy carrier USS Nimitz is part of the exercise
The navies of the United States, Australia, India, Japan and Singapore have begun a massive naval exercise, codenamed "Malabar", in the Bay of Bengal.
Thirty-four ships and submarines from the five countries have joined the six-day exercise, about 100 nautical miles off the Andaman archipelago.
Some analysts say the war games are an attempt by these countries to contain China's growing power.
The participants deny this, but Beijing
has expressed its concerns.
"This will perhaps be the biggest ever peace-time joint naval exercise in Asia," Indian navy spokesman Captain Vinay Garg said.
Ensuring security
The ships and submarines would take part in anti-piracy manoeuvres, reconnaissance and rescue missions and improve ways of working together, he said.
Left parties protest against the exercise
Left parties in India are protesting against the exercise
Two super-carriers of the US navy - USS Nimitz and USS Kitty Hawk of the Pacific fleet - will be joined by India's lone aircraft carrier, the INS Viraat, in the exercise.
A US nuclear submarine, USS Chicago, is also taking part.
India has denied claims that the exercise is aimed at China. "This is simply directed at ensuring security of the sea lanes of communication," Deputy Defence Minister Pallam Raju said.
The six-day exercise has been fiercely opposed by India's left-wing parties, who see it as "India's growing subservience" to the US.
The left, whose support is essential for the survival of India's Congress-led government, has organised demonstrations to oppose the exercise.
Chanting anti-US slogans, about 80 protestors boarded buses in Calcutta for Vishakhapatnam, a southern port city near the venue of the exercise.
Another group of left workers is scheduled to leave on Wednesday for Madras (Chennai), the capital of Tamil Nadu state, from where they will go to Vishakhapatnam where a protest rally is scheduled for Saturday.
In the past, India has held exercises with navies from Britain, France, Russia, Singapore and Vietnam.
A tri-nation event involving Brazil, India and South Africa is also due to be held in May 2008.
BBC NEWS | South Asia | Five-nation naval exercise begins
Is it aimed at China?
What would be the geostrategic and geopolitical ramifications?
"Some have learnt many Tricks of sly Evasion, Instead of Truth they use Equivocation, And eke it out with mental Reservation, Which is to good Men an Abomination."
I don't have to attend every argument I'm invited to.
HAKUNA MATATA
You notice, Sir, that two other countries most apt to join such an anti-China alliance (Taiwan and South Korea) couldn't stand the Japanese. The three biggest US allies in NW Asia (Taiwan, South Korea, and Japan) hate each other more than they fear China.Originally Posted by Ray
Chimo
1. Not at this moment, not in the current path and pace of events.
2. Yes, its aimed at PRChina.
3. Everybody (atleast the big 3) tells China it has a backup, China tell everybody that it knows, everybody continues to work with China on a one-on-one basis as has een going before the exercise. Essentially nothing changes as long as other parties continue in their respective paths and paces in other fields. It will become a military alliance only when one or more of the parties changes/is-forced-to-change the relations with China and each other.
Just my $0.02
For the US that does not matter: None of us can predict what kind of challenges China will bring in the future (if any at all). As I mentioned earlier, when you see a huge 300lbs guy coming at you and you don't now if he is coming in for a game of football or a fight, it makes as much sense to have a 280 lbs guy on your side as a couple of lightweight kungfu blackbelts.
Why do the Taiwanese hate the SoKos and vice versa?
Karmani Vyapurutham Dhanuhu
My bow is stretched for its task
Colonel and Astralis,
Can you explain in more details the historical animosity of the Chinese towards the Japanese?
"Some have learnt many Tricks of sly Evasion, Instead of Truth they use Equivocation, And eke it out with mental Reservation, Which is to good Men an Abomination."
I don't have to attend every argument I'm invited to.
HAKUNA MATATA
The 280 pound guy would appreciate a place to rest between rounds and possibly some food and water instead of bringing his own as well as his own chair to sit on during the match.
Seoul has stated that they will not allow combat operations against China in the event of a Taiwan conflict. That in itself freed up some PLAAF assets to be sent to the Taiwan theatre.
Since Taiwan will not allow Japanese participation, the USN will have to drag their own ships from elsewhere and may not have the time to fully formed proper CVBGs to bring to the fight.
During the Vietnam War, Taiwanese mercs and South Korean troops avoided each other like the plague. Both consider the other arrogant know it all who can only get themselves killed.Why do the Taiwanese hate the SoKos and vice versa?
The RoC maps still claim parts of Korea. Obviously, the Koreans disagree.
WWII, Sir. The Chinese people never had the chance for a proper pay back against the Japanese. The military war was won by others. The best the Chinese did was to held their own ground. Though a victor, China never got compensation nor vengeance at the Victor's table.
Chimo
ray,
primarily WWII. but the chinese got their butts handed to them in the first sino-japanese war (1894-5) by what the chinese (and others) considered to be an inferior nation.Colonel and Astralis,
Can you explain in more details the historical animosity of the Chinese towards the Japanese?
then, following the russo-japanese war and WWI, the japanese went and became a worse imperialist power than any of the western countries ever dreamed of being. they followed it up by trying to turn the rest of china into their pliant resource area. and of course WWII. somewhat like what the germans did to the russians, only on a longer, more organized, and probably even more barbaric scale.
The human mind cannot grasp the causes of phenomena in the aggregate. But the need to find these causes is inherent in man’s soul. And the human intellect, without investigating the multiplicity and complexity of the conditions of phenomena, any one of which taken separately may seem to be the cause, snatches at the first, the most intelligible approximation to a cause, and says: “This is the cause!"
-Leo Tolstoy
War and Peace
Wasn't it more like Japanese intervention in a Chinese civil war that was going on for some time, rather then Japanese invasion of a unified China?
More like Japan using Chinese civil strife as the excuse to conquer China.
Chimo
You completely missed the analogy. The "280 lbs guy" is a broad reference to the various strengths other nations of this "Quad" bring to the table: Japan brings the second largest economy and a cutting edge tech base, India brings the second largest population and a growing market, Australia brings space and resources. As I said earlier, no one can predict what kind of challenges China will bring in the future.
By those measurements, both Taiwan and South Korea are 250lb guys each.
Chimo
No, they are not. They are good 135-150lbs all-rounders, but neither can bring the sheer economic weight Japan brings, the population India brings, or the resource Australia brings. Consider also that there are lots more counties above them, in those terms, that the US counts as its friends. You can give them extra 30lbs weightage for their location, max.
The title of this is a MILITARY alliance, not the fastest checkout cashier. Both these countries can bring far more military assets to bear on China than any of the 4 mentioned. India would do better but she is checked by Pakistan.
Last edited by Officer of Engineers; 05 Sep 07, at 16:03.
Chimo
Oh, phuleez! If you want to go by titles and starting posts, look at the article posted: It claims the exercise is all about anti-piracy, rescue and relief missions; it also goes on to categorically quote a denial of any counter-China motives. Yet from the very first post we have been discussing China. Now I proceed to the next logical step in the path we have all strayed from, and suddenly finger start pointing, eh?
Okay, I can stop easily enough - I get the drift.
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