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Reply With QuoteGlyn and Blademaster, please keep things civilized or simply put each other on Ignore.
Josh,
Here is the absolute clincher:
Indian Navy was given an aircraft carrier a few decades before it was really ready for it. I believe India started the process to buy its first A/C even before it had an Indian Admiral: There are many open-source opinions from senior Indian Navy officers expressing dismay at that elephantine purchase forced on gullible Indian politicos by the British Admiral-on-loan at that time to pay off Britain's sterling debts. But the British had also taught IM an even more important lesson in dealing with civvie politicos "if you are getting screwed and can't help it, enjoy it". So Indian Navy apparently set about trying to build up its resume by gaining valuable experience in a position it was not really ready to be in. For such a small and relatively new Navy, IN is remarkably mature because of that experience.Originally Posted by glyn
Next problem - which persists to this day - was that once India got one A/C, it became the prime target of any opposition (in this matter India is lucky that the opposition has been remarkably incompetent). Basically an Indian A/C (or for that matter Thai, Italian, Spanish or even French and British ones) is the lone elephant on the battle-field which everyone knows had a very high-ranking king (now symbolic) on it. Draw your own lessons from Indian history about what happens when one side has isolated the elephant carrying the king. So as you can see India has always been worried about it. Only now does it have enough resources to invest in a handfull of 40K tonners. You can bet it wouldn't want to make the same mistake (albeit not one of its voluntary making) again! It will check its strides so as not to go off balance.
Make no mistake that the gravest threats to India were never military. India is remarkably well defended by the Himalayas on most of its land borders (try defending the same if it was plains with mechanized divisions). Even though it has long coastlines, they are wedge-shaped and compact. With wise and honest allocations of its "just 2.4% of the GDP" it can quite easily manage its military threats. Especially with the rate of India's rate of GDP growth. If you over compensate on this field, you leave yourself unbalanced and open to all kinds of other attacks (where indeed the threat is much greater).
Last edited by Cactus; 25 Aug 07, at 20:58.
Glyn and Blademaster, please keep things civilized or simply put each other on Ignore.
Size matters! Especially when you don't know if the 300 lbs guy coming at you wants to fight, or if he just wants to play a game of football. In neither case do you want to lose. It helps having a 280 lbs guy on your side, even if you are sure all your little buddies are kung-fu and karate black-belts.
True, but it did a remarkably good job with the Vikrant, in the only Naval war India fought - Bangaldesh '71.
The IN was also able to integrate Hermes & the Sea Harriers into its fleet fairly fast.
India is not in the Market for `a few 40,000 T CV's. There are delays with the Groshkov, but I think it was (and is) the best option for the IN at that point of time. There is also a certain comfort level with the hybrid of Russian and Indian electronics and ECM systems & Misiles (incl Brahmos).
Cactus,
There is a reason why the Navy's of the world respect the IN. It is the most professional arm in the Indian Armed Forces, and in the Indian Ocean is only second to the ever uber USN.
If you watch the Indian developments closely. The Navy is being used as a diplomatic tool, by the Government of India. Japan and US access India through its Navy in some ways.
I suggest you go through this video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mj30oQuTBDU
Without sounding arrogant or condecending, You severely underestimate the Indian Navy.
And they won't. Several years ago, the US finally got Japan to agree to help in case of a Mainland attack on Taiwan. Taiwan's reply was thanks but no thanks. South Korea adamantly rejects any exercises with the Japanese.
Chimo
Sir,
SO what is this NATO of the east as mooted by the Japanese Premier stand for.
I understand and agree with your assertions on Taiwan and South Korea
But we still have Japan, India, USA, Australia and maybe Singapore. These are te same nations doing the Malabar Ex in the Bay of Bengal and Indian Ocean.
Deleted
Last edited by Cactus; 25 Aug 07, at 23:36.
The USN grapevine says that India wont be sold the carrier. JFK (CV67) is as Rick mentioned a maintenance wreck and would drain their defense budget through refits and updates. It is far easier for India to construct or have constructed for them a smaller attack carrier such as the Brits have done for some time although they are planning on new "heavies". As of today JFK is tied up in Norfolk. She was awaiting transportaion to Philadelphia's reserve basin but the trip was cancelled for now. Reasons being are as follows:
1) Boston wants her for a museum on the waterfront since JFK was from the region.
2) The depth of Philadelphia's reserve basin was called into question due to being coupled with the Skuykill (bad spelling) river where as it meets the basin entrance. Since the last time it was dredged (When DesMoines CA134) was moved much silt has built up where the two meet creating a "high spot" and would have to be redredged in order for the carrier to clear the bottom before entering the basin proper. All rotations would have to be done outside the basin as the present condition (ships) would not allow rotation/manuver by tugs of the carrier once she is in and the tandem bridge lowered. Thanks
Last edited by Dreadnought; 25 Aug 07, at 22:51.
Fortitude.....The strength to persist...The courage to endure.
Thank you dreadnought
I really wouldn't want to be the one that has to go tell the Army and the Airforce that. How in god's name did you come up with that anyway?
"Of all the manifestations of power, restraint impresses men the most." - Thucydides
Its a very common perception, as well as how much the Navy has achieved with its size and budget and as it being the only truely global entity of the armed forces
The other being project management, while I do admit lately they have goofed up.
I wouldn't ask
[QUOTE=Dreadnought;400898]The USN grapevine says that India wont be sold the carrier. JFK (CV67) is as Rick mentioned a maintenance wreck and would drain their defense budget through refits and updates. It is far easier for India to construct or have constructed for them a smaller attack carrier such as the Brits have done for some time although they are planning on new "heavies". As of today JFK is tied up in Norfolk. She was awaiting transportaion to Philadelphia's reserve basin but the trip was cancelled for now. Reasons being are as follows:
1) Boston wants her for a museum on the waterfront since JFK was from the region.
Living in the Boston area I'd love to see the JFK here as a museum. I've actually emailed Sen. Ted Kennedy's office mentioning this. Any ideas when this might occur ??...or does a ship stay in Reserve for a certain period of time ??
Now you are being just mean,I wouldn't ask
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