Thread: Fantasy Fleet

Originally Posted by wabpilot

My main problem with the Wasp class is the power plant. Steam is just too manpower intensive. We should have gone with gas turbines. Wasp doesn't really need a ski jump for Harriers or F-35Bs as it has plenty of deck run for gross weight launches.

Sounds good then. I think, overall, my idea of a fleet is reasonably balanced except for the obvious logitical kicks. Thinking about it further I should have gone with a decent number of (say another 9) Collins class diesel patrol subs to balance out the big and expensive Oscars. Then again, I'm no Naval fanboy.

What for coastal/light patrol? The Visby looks nice.

Ok, here is my WWII fleet

I will omit the frigate for a second destroyer.

Destroyer: Fletcher and Sumner class's As for why,well the fletchers are my favorite WWII ship the back bone in my opinion and the Sumner, I felt they came a little to late for the war to prove them selfs, so the are heavily armed.

Light Cruiser : Cleaveland & Atlanta(AAW) class's As for the cleaveland well armed light cruiser. The atlanta just for AAW.

Heavy Cruiser :Scharnhorst class & Alaska class
Scharnhorst I would like to have seen in more action same with the alaska just want to see how it would have held up.

Battleship : Well first you have the best the Iowa class, North Carolina and the Bismark and Yamato class's This would have made a great battle theses four ships going at it, in the open sea!

As for modern day fleet it would be:

Frigate : Sachsen class,Valor class, Alvaro de Bazan,and La Fayette w/t aster-15

[b]Destroyers : A.Burk class, Kongo class, Sovremenny class and Udaloy II class,KDX-II/III, DeZeven class

Cruiser: Ticonderga class

Battlercruiser: Kirov class

Carrier: Nimitz class

Sub: Ohio Class SSBN

Attack sub.: Seawolf & Type 209 or Kilo class As for the modern fleet just because I happen to like and think theses are the best ships out there.

Wasn't on the list. But I figure my Naval Forces (I like that term better) would only operate larger combat-oriented Corvettes for Patrolling, although smaller swift-boat types would remain for port defence and shore recon etc. My Land Forces would include their own Riverine Warfare component for ops in inland waterways. Indeed my Air Forces would have their own small Watercraft units for security/rescue duties around their bases.
For the law enforcement-y type duties of peacetime border protection I'd create a Para-Military Security Force seprate from the Military and Police, with it's own Coastal Patrol units (PBs with MGs and AutoCannons) to deal with smuggling and all that jive. To me it seems like an unnessecary diversion for the Military. Especially if you're engaged overseas, which right now mine would be. Plus they could handle domestic CT, SWAT, Port Security and Capital Security... but I wander.
My wish list is really long.

WWII Dream Fleet-
(with heavily modified armament for commonality)

Frigate Class / Size ship: Loch/Bay class
modified armament:1x twin 5/38, 1x quad 40mm, 2x twin 40mm, 2x Squid, 4x DC throwers

Destroyer: Allen M. Sumner
modified armament: as is.

Light Cruiser: La Galissonnière
Just like them. Especially with the wartime additional AA fit. Below with twin 5/38 in place of twin 90mm AA.
modified armament: 3x triple 6/54, 4x twin 5/38, 6x quad 40mm

Heavy Cruiser: Baltimore
Good mainstays. And heavy escorts.
modified armament: 3x triple 8/55, 6x twin 5/38, 6x quad 40mm

Battle Cruiser: Amagi
Never got to be. Oh well. Armament with some modification to original plans.
modified armament: 4x twin 16/45, 8x twin 5/38, 12x quad 40mm

Battleship: Alsace
Yeah, i know that none were built, but one can dream, right? Armament as i would have loved it, and for commonality's sake.
modified armament: 3x triple 16/45, 4x triple 6/54, 8x twin 5/38, 16x quad 40mm.

Aircraft Carrier: Midway
Hands down. Give me some 60 F6F-5 Hellcats and 20 TBM-3E2 Avengers with it. Some armament mods too.
modified armament: 8x twin 5/38, 16x quad 40mm

Submarine: Type XXI
Electricity. 'nuff said.
modified armament: as is.




Fantasy Modern Fleet (shorter):

Frigate ASW: Nansen - though i'd take a Type 23 or Kortenaer/F123/Hellas too there.
Frigate All purpose: F123 - Dunno, just love its lines.
Destroyer: De Zeven Provincien - Yeah, they rate it a frigate. I don't.
Aircraft Carrier: CVF, french version - I'd like 40 Rafale F3 with it too, and a handful E3s.
Amphibious warfare vessel: Schelde Enforcer LHD-22000 - plus a couple of their LPDs.
ballistic missile submarine: whatever they'll call the Vanguard successor - or Vanguards themselves.
attack submarine: Trafalgar - British SSNs at least have proven that they are capable of sinking stuff.

Originally Posted by Stan

Just wondering as I walked back from the Shops with my lunch today, if you could put together a fleet of your own choosing what would it comprise of.

I then thought well if it was a modern fleet - such and such but hey if it was a WWII fleet I would have this this and that.

So anyways I wanted to know what you guys though (also i like to read your reasons, you tend to give some good ones).

So to begin.

Fantasy Modern Fleet:

Frigate-

ASW: Burke Flight IIA (50)
All purpose: Burke Flight II (25)

Destroyer: Burke Flight I(75) & Kidd(25)

Cruiser: Ticonderoga(50)

Aircraft Carrier: Nimitz(12) + 2 Kitty Hawk (1 for training 1 to cover RCOH)

Amphibious warfare vessel: Wasp enough to deploy two Marine BLTSOC simultaneously.

MARAD enough fast container ships and passenger transports to move all three Marine Divisions without resorting to commercial charter.

ballistic missile submarine: Ohio just the bare minimum for treaty obligations, convert the rest of the Ohios to SSGN.

attack submarine: Replace the Los Angles class one for one with Virginias

12 CVW with: 2 VFA with 12 x F-18F each, 2 VFA with 12 F-18E each, 1 VFA(AW) with 12 F-35C, 1 VAQ with 4 EF-18G, 1 VAQ with 4 E-2D, 1 VS with 10 S-3, 1 HS with 10 SH-60 and 1 C-1 COD each.

Fleet Aviation: enough HSLs to provide two SH-60s to every flight deck equipped DDG and CG in the fleet plus two reserve HSLs for the NRF.

2 CVW Reserve with the same basic TO&E as the regular CVW.

NRF: 24 Spruance class DDGs to be replaced with Kidd class as enough Burke Flight IIAs become available. 1 New build training CV with gas turbine propulsion, EMALS and sufficient facilities to move 1/2 a CVWR into combat on short notice.

3 Marine Air Wings with: 2 VFA with 12 F-18F, 2 VFA with 12 F-18E, 1 VA with 12 F-35B (if they can't be talked into F-35C), 1 VAQ with 4 EF-18G, 1 HC with 24 H-60, 1 HC with 12 V-22, 1 HC with 12 AH-1, 1 HQ with 4 UH-1N.

1 Reserve Marine Air Wing with the same basic TO&E as the regular Marine Air Wing.

3 Regular Marine Divisions, one amphibious armor heavy, two amphibious Mechanized.

1 Reserve Marine Division, air transportable.

Everyone still loves the Kidd class. I think they should have switched with the Spru-cans and only had 4 of the Spru-cans and had 31 Kidds.

I agree MC.

Only a coupla problems:

Cost

plenty of existing AAW escorts

AEGIS in the works

and at the time the USN desperately wanted an ASW destroyer to replace the mass of WWII conversions.

The USN was terribly unhappy with the Garcia/Brooke/Knox classes of DE/FF(G) although they were only supposed to be the POS component but they escorted carriers from their outset to their decommissiongs.

But the Spruance class was as widely and virulently criticised as the above mentioned classes.

The addition of two LAMPS III and VLS on some units did much to increase their effectiveness and utility but lack of adequate AAW systems remained a thorny issue.

Addition of an 8" gun on some units may have been interesting.

But with the reactivation of the battleships that program went away.

And now we have the 6" AGS gun on DDX maybe.

Its interesting to note that 6" gunfire was found inadequate in Korea against reinforced concrete structures specifically bridges.

It was the main reason no Cleveland class cruisers were reactivated for that war along with the ability of the UK able to provide 6" gunned cruisers.

The experience of the lone Cleveland class cruiser still in commission(USS Manchester), the relatively new Worcester along with the British 6" gunned cruisers employed in Korea saw to that.

FROM NHC:

"On the basis of Admiral Higgins’ reports of the ineffectiveness of 5 and 6-inch gunfire against reinforced concrete bridges it was decided to use the 8-inch cruisers for bombardment and fire support; Juneau was scheduled for transfer to the Seventh Fleet, and Higgins shifted his flag to Toledo."

Although to be sure Admiral Higgins most likely preferred a huge Baltimore class Heavy Cruiser as his Flag Ship than a far smaller Atlanta class AAW cruiser.

Building a navy is difficult process.

So many variables to take into account.

Sorry for the ramble.