Thread: Arleigh Burke Class Questions...

Originally Posted by PubFather

Was wondering if any of the extremely knowledgeable fellows on this board could help with a couple of questions I can't find definitive answer to about the Burkes.

1) Do the Burkes have a "standard" missile load out, i.e how many Standards, Toms etc do they carry - or does it vary widely? i read one source that stated 56 Toms per hull, which seemed extremely high.

2) Is RAM going to replace the Phalanx CIWS on the Burkes? I know they are being upgraded to Block 1B level Phalanx at the moment, but wondered if there was a longer term program to replace them.

3) I read somewhere that the towed sonar arrays are often no longer carried. Is this true?

4) Are there any plans to refit the Flight I's with the hangers and/or 5" 62 guns of the later flight?

5) In a non-Burke related question - is ESSM slated to be fitted to any current/future USN vessels that don't habitually carry a missile system like this? i.e CVN 21, LPH's, LPD's etc...

Thanks in advance for any help....

1. Not really. The missile configuration used to be 8 TLAMS and the rest filled with standards. With the sprucans out of service, armament depends on what role the ship is filling at the time.

2. Nope, ESSM.

3. Yes.

4. You really can't fit hangers on the original ships.

5. ESSM is replacing NSSM in Mk29 launchers. The San Antonio class has room for 16 Mk41 VLS cells and 64 ESSM missiles.

Thank you kindly for your swift response...

Originally Posted by PubFather

1) Do the Burkes have a "standard" missile load out, i.e how many Standards, Toms etc do they carry - or does it vary widely? i read one source that stated 56 Toms per hull, which seemed extremely high.

As I understand it, for ESGs and CSGs, Task Group Commanders decide loadouts prior to deployment for each VLS ship in the force. For surge and other patrols, HQ decides.

So for example if you had a CSG

1 CVN
1 CG
2 DDG
1 SSN

Cruisers usually carry between 12-24 Tomahawks. Older DDGs usually operate as ASW and Strike platforms in strike groups, usually carrying between 48-56 Tomahawks. Flight IIAs usually deploy with between 12-32 Tomahawks, between 16-64 ESSMs, and the rest SM-2s.

If the SSN has VLS, it only deploys with torpedos. If the SSN doesn't have VLS, it usually carries 4 Tomahawks for Torpedo tube launch.

In specific situations, loadouts are customized. During Gulf War I for example, the USS San Jacinto was designated a "Special Weapons Platform" and deployed with 122 Tomahawks.

ABM AEGIS is changing this btw. ABM AEGIS is an either/or AEGIS system, meaning either it can track Ballistic Missiles, OR it operates in conventional air search. The CONOPS for ABM SSGs would put 3 AEGIS ships together, specifically 2 traditional AEGIS with 1 ABM AEGIS. Under this model the expectation is the ABM AEGIS would carry the ABM interceptors, and fill the loadout with a large number of Tomahawks and 8 ASROCs.

Originally Posted by Galrahn

As I understand it, for ESGs and CSGs, Task Group Commanders decide loadouts prior to deployment for each VLS ship in the force. For surge and other patrols, HQ decides.

So for example if you had a CSG

1 CVN
1 CG
2 DDG
1 SSN

Cruisers usually carry between 12-24 Tomahawks. Older DDGs usually operate as ASW and Strike platforms in strike groups, usually carrying between 48-56 Tomahawks. Flight IIAs usually deploy with between 12-32 Tomahawks, between 16-64 ESSMs, and the rest SM-2s.

If the SSN has VLS, it only deploys with torpedos. If the SSN doesn't have VLS, it usually carries 4 Tomahawks for Torpedo tube launch.

In specific situations, loadouts are customized. During Gulf War I for example, the USS San Jacinto was designated a "Special Weapons Platform" and deployed with 122 Tomahawks.

ABM AEGIS is changing this btw. ABM AEGIS is an either/or AEGIS system, meaning either it can track Ballistic Missiles, OR it operates in conventional air search. The CONOPS for ABM SSGs would put 3 AEGIS ships together, specifically 2 traditional AEGIS with 1 ABM AEGIS. Under this model the expectation is the ABM AEGIS would carry the ABM interceptors, and fill the loadout with a large number of Tomahawks and 8 ASROCs.

Thanks for that also - I didnt realise Aegis ABM couldnt be used in conjunction with regular Aegis. I sort of assumed you switched one off, and the other one on as you needed it...

I hadn't known about that either. It seems like a very high price to pay for ballistic missile defense.

Wait a second, I got part of that wrong.

18 ABM ships in 9 SSGs for ABM defense, would be 2 ABM AEGIS ships and 1 conventional AEGIS ship, not the other way around. It is basically 2 trackers/launchers with 1 additional ship for escort/protection.

BTW, this will become a major topic the next congressional cycle as congress discusses the CG and DDG modernization programs, which start with the FY08 budget. There is discussion that the modernization programs should include more than just 18 ABM defense ships, and/or additionally fix the limitations by allowing all AEGIS ships to operate in both modes at the same time.

The CG(X) is expected to be the first ship which can operate in both modes at the same time. In fact, ABM defense is about the only thing the DD(X) has not claimed to be able to do.

I do not know how easy/difficult it is to switch from one mode to the other, so I have no idea if it is a matter of returning to port, rebooting a specific system, or toggle a switch.

AFAIK

The ABM upgrade does NOT detract from any AAW miission profile.