Thread: Naval Wish List

Originally Posted by STAN

the u represents the actual spelling in the ENGLISH dictionary

from the country that brought you the ENGLISH language

:P

Correct now ad the adige of American slang which differs from many of English words from the turn of the century. When the USN raises its Jack or Ensign its "COLORS" not "COLOURS" If in doubt then you may look it up on almost any site that deals with the flag and it raising. A note: Outside of the U.S. Armed Forces nobody raises "colors" to civilians its the flag

U.S. Army..http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/flags/us%5Ear.html

U.S. Marine Corps....http://mysite.verizon.net/vzeohzt4/S...mc/marine.html

Originally Posted by HistoricalDavid

Is the the Block IV slated for any more production? Seems like a useful missile to extend a Tico/Burke's difficult-to-intercept anti-ship capability.

No.

Originally Posted by HistoricalDavid

According to Wiki the SM-3 has GPS guidance, though, so presumably it can act against surface targets and ships over-the-horizon if given updates by JSTARS.

SM-3 has no warhead.

Originally Posted by STAN

the u represents the actual spelling in the ENGLISH dictionary

from the country that brought you the ENGLISH language

:P

We revolted because we didn't like you or your dictionary....remember?

Sources are "Sea Power for a New Era 2006" chapter 3 available here , invester information on sales provided at Raytheons 26th Annual Aerospace and Defense Technology Conference, and CRS reports and research developed by Steven A. Hildreth, some of which is available online (or should be since most CRS reports are).

I am guessing mostly, because the sources are about 6-12 months off, but the guesses are based on production rates.

Standard Missiles:

SM-2 Block III ~500
SM-2 Block IIIA ~700
SM-2 Block IIIB ~800
SM-2 Block IIIB AUR ~500
SM-2 Block IV/IVA ~100
SM-3 Block 1/2 ~100
SM-6 Block 1 ~15-20?

The SM-2 Block IIIB AUR is the only varient in production right now, while SM-3 Block 2, while still in slow development build, is still considered a development weapon and is funded differently. Those are estimates as the current AUR upgrade is expected to make all Standards BlockIII AUR, for a total of 2600 SM-2 Block IIIB AUR by around August of 2015.

This list is only AEGIS VLS versions of the Standards, but the Navy did build over 16,000 non VLS SM-1s and SM-2s. Older Standards were to be removed from service by 2004 and preserved to be sold to foreign countries as spares. BTW, I am not sure the Spruance is a good example, as far as I know that class never deployed with SM-2s in its VLS hold, as the ship didn't have the required supporting systems. The Spruance class was almost exclusively a Tomahawk/VLA platform. Maybe you were thinking of the older CGs and Kidd class?

The Navy continues to buy and upgrade around 250 VLS SM-2s per year, and has purchased at least 250 new for 7 straight years as of FY06. Some are all-round-up upgrades of older SM-2s. The US Navy still has around 10,000 older Standards in storage, although they are not VLS.

RGM-109 Tomahawk

There are currently ~3800 Tomahawks in the US Navy as broken down.

TLAM-N 200
Block I/II ~500 (storage)
Block III ~2500
Block IV (known as TACTOM) ~600

I think what has people confused is how the media has reported stocks. As of 1996, the US Navy had 4000 total Tomahawks in inventory, but in 2000 some congressman said the Navy only has around 2000. Well, the 2000 number was regarding Block II and Block III being deployed, not the older Block I and Block II that weren't, which included older anti-ship versions no longer deployed at that time.

In April of 2003, the media got wind that there were only about 400 or so Block IIIs, and the media reported it as a crisis. According to Raytheon, they are currently working contracts for builds, upgrades, maintinance, and conversions for up to 2500 Block IIIs and over 3000 TACTOMS, and the Navies current announced plans should give a total of over 3000 TACTOMs and 2500 Block IIIs by fall of FY09.

Originally Posted by Galrahn

Standard Missiles:

SM-2 Block III ~500
SM-2 Block IIIA ~700
SM-2 Block IIIB ~800
SM-2 Block IIIB AUR ~500
SM-2 Block IV/IVA ~100

Which would be used up in a matter of weeks in a full out naval conflict.

Originally Posted by Galrahn

This list is only AEGIS VLS versions of the Standards

They're the only ones that matter.

Originally Posted by Galrahn

BTW, I am not sure the Spruance is a good example, as far as I know that class never deployed with SM-2s in its VLS hold, as the ship didn't have the required supporting systems. The Spruance class was almost exclusively a Tomahawk/VLA platform. Maybe you were thinking of the older CGs and Kidd class?

Friend, the assertion you challenged was that the USN could not fill all it's VLS tubes.

An assertion that goes far beyond Standard missiles.

There are currently ~3800 Tomahawks in the US Navy as broken down.

Originally Posted by Galrahn

TLAM-N 200
Block I/II ~500 (storage)
Block III ~2500
Block IV (known as TACTOM) ~600

The BkI/II are obsolete. I wonder how many people in the fleet even know how to plan a TERCOM mission nowadays.

There are 27 Ticos(3456cells) and 52 Burkes(4992cells- incl launches this FY IIRC). That's a total of 8448 cells alone.

Now add in the four SSGNs, that's another 616cells.

Now we're up to 9064.

How many 688s at 12 cells each, and how many Sea Wolves and Va's?

Even without the Sprucans(i think i ran my figures when there were 19 of them still in service, so another 1216cells), we're waaaay over 10,000 tubes now dude.

Also keep in mind that the Sea Sparrow/ESSMs are needed for a myriad of non-VLS systems too....so in reality, they cant account for any of the VLS cells at this time. Also, some TLAMs are tube fired variants(subs), and not VLS capable IIRC(Not sure about that one)

So do you see where i was coming from now?

Originally Posted by STAN

the u represents the actual spelling in the ENGLISH dictionary

from the country that brought you the ENGLISH language

:P

Yeah, but we speak Americanese here.

Originally Posted by M21Sniper

A lot of those 2700 are non-VLS models for the pre-VLS Tico Mk26 rail mounts, and i bet a lot of them are SM-1s from the Perrys.

What can we do with those? Upgrade to current standards? or that's not possible?

How about selling them to allies for use on their older ships? Even on the cheap is better than scrapping them, right?

Originally Posted by STAN

the u represents the actual spelling in the ENGLISH dictionary

from the country that brought you the ENGLISH language

:P

Oh ok so you mean the country we REMOVED Naval Supremecy from? J/K mate . I like the Brits they're a fun bunch. Infact I havent seen the Chap much lately.

Originally Posted by M21Sniper

Also keep in mind that the Sea Sparrow/ESSMs are needed for a myriad of non-VLS systems too....so in reality, they cant account for any of the VLS cells at this time. Also, some TLAMs are tube fired variants(subs), and not VLS capable IIRC(Not sure about that one)

Come on Snipe, surely you realize I know the difference, there are around 500 ESSMs so far for VLS packaged in 4 packs, which could only be used for VLS, and only the Flight IIAs can fire ESSM at this point anyway. They go on 16 per ship, consuming 4 cells. That much I know for sure. You are correct about the Tomahawks, except the US Navy doesn't deploy the torpedo launched ones anymore, although I am told there are some in reserve. Instead, the US sells them.

Originally Posted by M21Sniper

So do you see where i was coming from now?

Yep, I see what your saying, except your numbers are off. There are only 22 CGs today. The first 28 DDGs have 90 cells, with the second 24 with 96, but 4 of the cells are for ESSM. Of the 24, only 15 Flight IIAs have actually deployed so far.

There are 7544 cells currently in the entire surface fleet, only 6680 have been deployed, and of those around 48-64 cells are reserved for BMD across 6 ships. We both know not all of the remaining 6680 could go to war if it broke out today.

Since the SSGNs are only loading 102 Tomahawks, and most torpedo launched Tomahawks are being sold to allies, it is a good guess that the only subs that would carry cruise missiles are the VLS submarines. Even with all 4 SSGNs though, if you count all the current VLS on SSNs and combine them, the number is only around 600.

Basically, the 7000 number of missiles is about what is on par with what is out there and available, no matter how you look at it. As more ships are coming online, keep in mind more missiles are too, so the totals do appear controlled somewhat, albeit with little room to spare.

I think it is better this way though, with new systems coming online like ESSM, TACTOM, and Harpoon III, in a tight budget world it is better to be close than way over or way under, because if you make either mistake it can cost you.

But are those 7544 cells always at sea? How many of those ships are at port or in the dry dock for whatever the reason? If so, do they offload their weapons to fill another ship's tubes?

Originally Posted by Galrahn

Come on Snipe, surely you realize I know the difference,

Bro, when we talk, we're talking to the whole board.

Even the idiots.

Hence my spelling out of this issue. No need to take offense compadre.

If it were me, i'd be filling 16 VLS cells with Q-Pack ESSMs(64), 36 with Std(36), and the rest with T-hawks(44).

PS: All the burkes have had their VLS cranes removed(long ago), so IIRC they all have 96 cells now. Same with the TICOs, which used to have 120 cells before the cranes came off.

hmmm my wishlist for the Royal Canadian Navies..<takes a big breath>..leaky rusty useless dilapidated hunk of junk pathetic lemon Sub fleet?

hmmmmm

1. Corks: To plug into all the holes.

2. A time machine: To fastward to a time when the subs will be seaworth and operational....on second thought, scrap that idea, i might warp into a non-existant future.

3. A very very very large toilet: To flush down all the money that these subs are goinig to waste the canadian tax payer.

4. A thousand blue-boxes: To recycle all that scrap metal.

Originally Posted by Canmoore

hmmm my wishlist for the Royal Canadian Navies..<takes a big breath>..leaky rusty useless dilapidated hunk of junk pathetic lemon Sub fleet?

hmmmmm

1. Corks: To plug into all the holes.

2. A time machine: To fastward to a time when the subs will be seaworth and operational....on second thought, scrap that idea, i might warp into a non-existant future.

3. A very very very large toilet: To flush down all the money that these subs are goinig to waste the canadian tax payer.

4. A thousand blue-boxes: To recycle all that scrap metal.

still cant believe that you bought those subs... i mean d'huh... why do you think we were selling brand new subs off cheap?

Originally Posted by PubFather

still cant believe that you bought those subs... i mean d'huh... why do you think we were selling brand new subs off cheap?

How many subs were perchased and from whome?