Thread: Naval Wish List

A CATOBAR carrier with appropriate aircraft could have been quite useful in defending the Falklands.

Originally Posted by HKDan

I really hadn't known about the missile shortage until I read about it here. Googled it and was really horrified to find out what the numbers of SM-2IIIB and ESSM really are. It just hadn't crossed my mind earlier to look into that sort of thing. The assumption is that VLS tubes will be filled. What an unpleasant surprise. Makes me more worried about the Super Bug than I had been.

Well i'm glad i was able to make you aware of the situation my friend.

Originally Posted by gunnut

Can F-35 supercruise? If so, then it's internal weapon bay is a huge plus over the Rafale and EF.

It's not planned to have super-cruise, although its possible that the C will be able to (less likely the B).
I have no problem with the C variant - I just dislike the B as being too much of a jack-of-all-trades - master of none.

But then we would need to find the budget for the A-12, which I'm sure the Pentagon will make it an extraordinarily complex machine each costing $70 million to make.

lol - I was dreaming....

RN needs carriers with catapults and F-35C. None of that 60000t STOVL crap dictated by the socialists.

It's STOVL crap but seriously not dictated by socialists. It's largely internal UK military politics. The RAF does not want the RN to have a true fixed wing capability. The RAF wants a like-for-like replacement for the Harrier - and therefore the F35B is the only possible replacement.. The idea is that the RAF F35B's will be able to operate from the carriers when required (in the same that the GR7's currently do).

Overall, the UK military is obsessed with STOVL after the Falkland. So we will spend more, on a less capable jet because of it. Naturally, the RAF isnt inclined to buy the F35C.

Of course, if we went CATOBAR then we could also have the Hawkeye D but that would be far too logical for British defence procurement.

CVF is designed to be retro-fitted with catapults at a later date, should the need arise. The French version will be CATOBAR (in the same way that Charles De Gaulle is, she's only 45000 tons.)

Fastfoward to today, the tree huggers still don't want to be offended, so to get the funding for Queen Elizabeth, she has to be a STOVL carrier

It's really not the same situation now - as outlined above.
I strongly suspect that CVF will be cut next year anyway - because of the cost of GWII...

Does anyone have some sort of list documenting the SM series's situation - I'm rather confused as to which versions are in service, which are coming, what their ranges are, etc.

Originally Posted by PubFather

Of course, if we went CATOBAR then we could also have the Hawkeye D but that would be far too logical for British defence procurement.

As I said - Olympic champions at foot-shooting.

The F-35 can supposedly Supercruise at about mach 1.2

Originally Posted by HistoricalDavid

A CATOBAR carrier with appropriate aircraft could have been quite useful in defending the Falklands.

Like the Ark Royal (IV) who was paid off early in 1980 due to costs? When she had years left in her and operated Buccaneers and F4's... Just as well the Argies attacked when they did - otherwise Invincible was likely to be sold to some 3rd world navy...

As I said - Olympic champions at foot-shooting.

Lol, the list of f*ckups is scary....

Originally Posted by PubFather

Like the Ark Royal (IV) who was paid off early in 1980 due to costs? When she had years left in her and operated Buccaneers and F4's... Just as well the Argies attacked when they did - otherwise Invincible was likely to be sold to some 3rd world navy...

We needed faster, longer-ranged aircraft with proper BVR capability and proper AEW. CATOBAR carriers and aircraft provides that, maybe even obsolete ones like the Ark, Buccaneers and Phantoms.

Not disagreeing with you HD. IMO in 1982 the F4's and the Bucs were not obsolete compared to anything the Argies had. The F4's would have murdered the Argie strike force - the Bucs the ground troops.

The AEW was always a problem - with only the Ganet available. Mind you the US might have lent us a couple of Hawkeyes.

But the only realistic solution nowadays is CATOBAR - but it won't happen...

Originally Posted by PubFather

It's STOVL crap but seriously not dictated by socialists. It's largely internal UK military politics. The RAF does not want the RN to have a true fixed wing capability.

Must be the socialists in the RAF...

Come on man, work with me here. Socialists are the root of all evil.

Originally Posted by Gun Grape

What would you have these seaplanes do that would increase the combat capabilities of the MEF?

It might not bring much to the table for conventional warfighting but I think it would be a plus for raiding.

Land in the littoral, or some rivers for that matter; Rigid Raider boats, or maybe even LAV's, off the back ramp; shore raid and return. I think a functional drive on/off ramp could be made, although I'm really just guessing on that. But the boats would certainly be deployable.

Sometimes in heavy jungle areas rivers make the best airstrips.

I think some Mariines were evacuated off the beach at Iwo Jima by the old PBY "Flying Boat." Who knows? Might be good for medevac on the Euphrates also.

Originally Posted by gunnut

Must be the socialists in the RAF...

Come on man, work with me here. Socialists are the root of all evil.

Apologies gunnut - I forgot about the wishy-washy socialists in the RAF... You can tell em from their public schooling, posh accents and handle-bar moustaches...

BTW - if socialists are the root of all evil - where do liberals fit in??? What about the liberal socialists???

Originally Posted by PubFather

BTW - if socialists are the root of all evil - where do liberals fit in??? What about the liberal socialists???

Socialists are evil because they want to control our wallets.

Liberals want to control our thoughts.

Socialists are worse because we can buy thoughts with money, if we have enough.

Originally Posted by gunnut

Must be the socialists in the RAF...

Come on man, work with me here. Socialists are the root of all evil.

Well, they are the ones cutting the budget to the bone forcing the services to fight for table scraps.

Originally Posted by PubFather

BTW - if socialists are the root of all evil - where do liberals fit in??? What about the liberal socialists???

Different names for the same beast.

I call socialism "commie lite."