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Thread: Seawolf vs Virginia

  1. #31
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    On quietness it is suppossed to be at least as quiet as the Seawolf but at speeds over 35kts the Virginia is suppossedly not as quiet.

    Someone did say that the Seawolf at 25kts was quieter than Virginia 20.

    Ive heard the reverse.

    But the fact remains that the main differnce between the two is 10 more wepons on the SW and fly-by-wire ships control for the Virginia.

    Also the Virginias sonar is optomised for the Littorals but I see no reason that SW couldnt be updated as well.

    Me I like the Virginia.

    Remember too that there are diminishing returns the faster and deeper you go.

    Weapons can only be launched within certain parameters.

    OTOH conversely speed and depth capabilities are far more important for escaping weapons launched at you.

    Then again if you plan on operating in a combat mode mostly in shallower water then those two capabilities taken to the cutting edge lose there utility.

    The bet Ive seen it put is that the:

    Seawolf is the Rolls Royce(or Cadillac if you prefer)

    And the

    Virginia is the Porsche(Corvette if you prefer).

    Once again I prefer the Virginia. But Seawolf is fine too.
    Last edited by rickusn; 31 May 06, at 00:23.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by rickusn
    On quietness it is suppossed to be at least as quiet as the Seawolf but at speeds over 35kts the Virginia is suppossedly not as quiet.

    Someone did say that the Seawolf at 25kts was quieter than Virginia 20.

    Ive heard the reverse.

    But the fact remains that the main differnce between the two is 10 more wepons on the SW and fly-by-wire ships control for the Virginia.

    Also the Virginias sonar is optomised for the Littorals but I see no reason that SW couldnt be updated as well.

    Me I like the Virginia.

    Remember too that there are diminishing returns the faster and deeper you go.

    Weapons can only be launched within certain parameters.

    OTOH conversely speed and depth capabilities are far more important for escaping weapons launched at you.

    Then again if you plan on operating in a combat mode mostly in shallower water then those two capabilities taken to the cutting edge lose there utility.

    The bet Ive seen it put is that the:

    Seawolf is the Rolls Royce(or Cadillac if you prefer)

    And the

    Virginia is the Porsche(Corvette if you prefer).

    Once again I prefer the Virginia. But Seawolf is fine too.
    Well Rick, I won't contradict you since I'm as unsure as you, but I think it's 20 vs 25 kts. Seawolf has silent running at 25 and virginia at 20. But I could be wrong IMO.

  3. #33
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    Has the Seawolf class yet fired a shot in anger?

  4. #34
    Military Professional maximusslade's Avatar
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    OK, I am going to settle this right here and now.......

    Having been assigned to USS Connecticut, the fastest, the deepest diving, the most heavily armed, and aside from the Jimmy Carter, quietest of the Seawolf submarines. Without divulging any national secrets I can say with the utmost confidence that the Seawolf dives deeper, moves faster, and is most heavily armed attack submarine out there. The Virginias may certainly be more quiet in some situations, but as is the Seawolfs are giant holes in the water. It may be a matter of pride on my part, but I think it is well founded. In the combat role the Seawolfs are far superior. As to littoral ops... as a class the Virginias would probably perform better, BUT the best littoral submarine out there is the SEAWOLF class USS Jimmy Carter.

    If you want to make car comparisons, the Seawolfs are the Caddilac STS and Virginias are not Porches...maybe more of a Miata....



    As to someone's comment that there is only "inches of alloys" shielding sailors on submarines, that is very false. Again without divulging any secrets, there is several feet of shielding of differing types. This shielding is sufficent enough to cause exposure rates are far less than the exposure you would get from standing out in the sun for the same amount of time. Let's just say, I've taken naps in my reactor compartment.......
    Hit Hard, Hit Fast, Hit Often...

  5. #35
    Contributor Tin Man's Avatar
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    Well, on a lighter note, I thought maximusslade and WAB members would like this picture of the USS JIMMY CARTER.)
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  6. #36
    Military Professional maximusslade's Avatar
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    THAT is precious!!!! My ribs are still hurting
    Hit Hard, Hit Fast, Hit Often...

  7. #37
    Contributor Tin Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maximusslade View Post
    THAT is precious!!!! My ribs are still hurting

    Me too! Got big laughs at work with it!
    I am surprised the USN has allowed this picture release!)
    "Liberty is a thing beyond all price.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tin Man View Post
    Me too! Got big laughs at work with it!
    I am surprised the USN has allowed this picture release!)
    They must be nuts to do so!)
    Semper in excretum. Solum profunda variat.

  9. #39
    Contributor Tin Man's Avatar
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    Oh, Glyn that was terrible! Much worse than I and I didn`t think that possible! ) )
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  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by dalem View Post
    With the disappearance of the Soviet fleet (including subs), I wonder (truly wonder, not rhetorically) how useful the SSNs are. But I think that reflects my poor understanding of the totality of their mission rather than anything else.

    Antiship is always there, I guess ASW is still supercritical (SSKs are still pretty effing dangerous when you are in their neighborhood from what I know), and patrol/intel is a big one too. Are they still "needed" for SSM launches - don't VLS-equipped DDs and FFs pretty much outweigh that as a primary role?

    And are the 688s getting too old? How long are they expected to be in service?

    -dale
    The "In their neighborhood" part is the fatal flaw for SSKs. Their Ambush machines. Out in the open ocean they're either have to creep along or either surfaced or at periscope depth if they have a snorkel to run the diesels where they're vulnerable. Nuke boats don't have to surface (except for supplies) and can actively hunt in the open ocean.
    F/A-18E/F Super Hornet: The Honda Accord of fighters.

  11. #41
    Contributor Tin Man's Avatar
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    Whilst we are on the USS Jimmy Carter and USS Virginia theme, I thought I would share some more pictures, all have been officially released by the USN.

    I am really surprised to see one particular picture. It is inside the construction shed at Electric Boat. It depicts the Virginia, with the Jimmy Carter at the bottom left, with employees working on the Carter in amazing detail. An incredible picture to release. Times have indeed changed. We would never have seen this photo released during the Cold War. I have a higher res` version that I can`t upload to this board.

    It also shows the Tomahawk VLS tubes and other goodies.

    We also see the MMP hull plug for the Carter and the steering controls on board.

    Does anybody know why the USN has moved away from sail mounted hydroplanes? No bowplanes for that matter unless they retract? Could they manoeuvre just using thrusters? If I am out of line asking those questions, somebody holler,or just ignore them
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  12. #42
    Military Professional maximusslade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tin Man View Post
    Whilst we are on the USS Jimmy Carter and USS Virginia theme, I thought I would share some more pictures, all have been officially released by the USN.

    I am really surprised to see one particular picture. It is inside the construction shed at Electric Boat. It depicts the Virginia, with the Jimmy Carter at the bottom left, with employees working on the Carter in amazing detail. An incredible picture to release. Times have indeed changed. We would never have seen this photo released during the Cold War. I have a higher res` version that I can`t upload to this board.

    It also shows the Tomahawk VLS tubes and other goodies.

    We also see the MMP hull plug for the Carter and the steering controls on board.

    Does anybody know why the USN has moved away from sail mounted hydroplanes? No bowplanes for that matter unless they retract? Could they manoeuvre just using thrusters? If I am out of line asking those questions, somebody holler,or just ignore them

    Having spent a good deal of time at EB, it is not suprising that you have found these videos. While I was first there the USS Hawaii was in two pieces. I actually watched them bring in a section of the hull on a barge, no covers or anything. At one point half the incomplete boat was sitting out in the open for everyone to see, not to mention the large doors of the assembly area are often open and can be looked into by anyone with a good pair of binoculars.

    The sail mounted planes (properly called fairweather planes) are no longer in use for a very simple reason... you can't use them on the surface (not to mention it makes it a little more difficult to punch through the polar ice cap). It is my understanding they moved them away from the bow in past decades because they interfered with sonar somehow. Now adays they are monted on the bow again where they allow for increased control of depth at periscope depth. While away from the surface and also while at any speed above a few knots, the bow planes are retracted to protect them from damage. They are also not needed while at speed since the stern planes have over 3 times the surface area of the bowplanes thus providing much more control over the boat than the bow planes could contribute.

    As to thrusters...let's just say that I can neither confirm nor deny the existence of thrusters aboard submarines. :P

    As for everything you see in the photos, I can tell you there are no real breaches of security there. Everything you see is stuff that anyone who knows how to surf the internet can find out. What you dont see is the electronics, the engineering spaces, the reactor. You will never see that in a photo.
    Hit Hard, Hit Fast, Hit Often...

  13. #43
    Contributor Tin Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maximusslade View Post



    Having spent a good deal of time at EB, it is not suprising that you have found these videos. While I was first there the USS Hawaii was in two pieces. I actually watched them bring in a section of the hull on a barge, no covers or anything. At one point half the incomplete boat was sitting out in the open for everyone to see, not to mention the large doors of the assembly area are often open and can be looked into by anyone with a good pair of binoculars.

    The sail mounted planes (properly called fairweather planes) are no longer in use for a very simple reason... you can't use them on the surface (not to mention it makes it a little more difficult to punch through the polar ice cap). It is my understanding they moved them away from the bow in past decades because they interfered with sonar somehow. Now adays they are monted on the bow again where they allow for increased control of depth at periscope depth. While away from the surface and also while at any speed above a few knots, the bow planes are retracted to protect them from damage. They are also not needed while at speed since the stern planes have over 3 times the surface area of the bowplanes thus providing much more control over the boat than the bow planes could contribute.

    As to thrusters...let's just say that I can neither confirm nor deny the existence of thrusters aboard submarines. :P

    As for everything you see in the photos, I can tell you there are no real breaches of security there. Everything you see is stuff that anyone who knows how to surf the internet can find out. What you dont see is the electronics, the engineering spaces, the reactor. You will never see that in a photo.
    Thank you max`, the devil is in the details I guess Thank God there is nothing really interesting to see in the pictures, but we never saw even those kinds of pictures way back when, although the WWW wasn`t around!

    Yes, I imagined the bow planes were retractable. I had always thought that the fairweather planes, sail mounted, were quite handy for ice breaking when put into the vertical position. From what you have said, it seems they were in that position to both protect them, and so as not to make them a hindrance when breaking through. Good info`.

    Publicly, the Navy has released drawings of auxiliary manoeuvring devices on the Seawolf class, or at least their relative position on the hull, your answer was excellent ) Cheers.
    "Liberty is a thing beyond all price.

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