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Thread: Scorpene vs. U212

  1. #1
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    Scorpene vs. U212

    I saw a program on Discovery that talked about the U212/214. I was impressed by the 212/214 program and the sub seemed to be more roomy than before. I was also impressed by the command warfare center they had for the U212/214. It made me think of the Scorpenes ordered by the IN.

    I was wondering which one would be better for IN in terms of long term patrolling, long duration attacking profiles, longer silent running, better sensing & analyzing capabilities.

    I think the IN should have gone for 212/214 because they already had 209 in their inventory. Having 212/214 would mean an upgrade of the 209 infrastructure instead of building an entire new infrastructure. What says this great forum?

    Here are the links to the subs for analysis:

    U212/214 subs:
    http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/type_212/

    Scorpene subs:
    http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/scorpene/

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    Up!

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    Contributor JG73's Avatar
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    The naval-tech article says
    HDW has developed the Type 214 submarine, which is a further improvement on the Type 212.
    That's only partially correct. The U-214 is based on U-209 with technologies of U-212A. You can see this at the hull of U-214 for example. Theres only one deck, the arrangement of the torpedo-tubes and the elevators are nearly the same as for U-209. More over U-212A has the more powerful AIP system (U-212A->304KW / U-214->240KW) and better MAD-protection because of the amagnetic hull. Therefore U-214 can dive a bit deeper and has some further sensors which will at first in batch 2 built in U-212 like Link 11 tactical data link, optronic mast and active-sonar.
    In the meantime the German Navy has ordered 2 more U-212s of the 2nd batch.

    There was a nice article of 'Marineforum' which gave a good overview about German submarine constructions, beninning with Typ VII C. Unfortunately it's not online currently.

    About Scorpene I can't say much or at least you should ask some one who's more an expert in that field than me.
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    Thanks for the review and insight. It is greatly appreciated. Could you provide a link to the Marine Forum that you mentioned?

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    Ah sorry. I don't read German. Is there an English version?

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    Real Madrid CF Senior Contributor indianguy4u's Avatar
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    Is IN considering Amur? How is it in relation to Scorpene?
    Hala Madrid!!

  8. #8
    Contributor JG73's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blademaster
    Ah sorry. I don't read German. Is there an English version?

    Unfortunately not. It's a pity because these are nearly the best articles you can find about U-212.

    Instead I have to offer some videos. They are also in German but are giving some nice views of the inside.

    U 31 (ISDN)
    U 31 (DSL)
    U 32 (ISDN)
    U 32 (DSL)


    BTW: U 32 has done a new record for SSKs recently with operating 2 weeks dived.
    >Facit Omnia Voluntas<

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    Do the articles in German give any updated information about the Power output of the AIP system?

    Naval-Technology lists it as nine PEM (polymer electrolyte membrane) fuel cells, providing between 30 and 50kW each, but doesn't break it down any further.

    I've been trying to figure out a better scale in regards to power output of the AIP drive of the U214, just to see how much more advanced it is in relation to the HMS Gotland the US is playing with in the Pacific.

  10. #10
    Contributor JG73's Avatar
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    U-212A has 9 PEM modules with 34kW each, while U-214 has 2 120kW modules.
    >Facit Omnia Voluntas<

  11. #11
    Contributor JG73's Avatar
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    This link translated with babelfish.



    Rather exactly 30 years lie between 13 March 1975 and 19 October 2005. To the first date the double setting into service took place from U 26 and U 30, the last two boats of the series class U 206, to the second date the boats U 31 and U 32 of the class U 212A into the service of the navy was taken. IPB image in various regard mark the two times of innovation jumps in the conventional building of submarines - and they mark a singular phenomenon: Over 30 years the own navy had not activated a new submarine more, yet it succeeded to the German maritime military engineering industry to be established in this period as world market leaders for non-nuclear submarines. I attribute this to four reasons: The restriction of tonnage of the WEU for submarines of the new German Federal Navy and the demands for according to compact, powerful platforms for underwater warfare, in particular in the flat marginal sea Baltic Sea; High the innovation ability and achievement of the German industry in connection with the support by training, quality test and test capacities, granted by navy and arms range; The high professionalism and international Reputation of German submarine drivers reached in the process of the four decades since list of the submarine flotilla of the German navy; And - read but emergency leases - the myth of the "grey wolves" of the Second World War Page 1 far with page 2 History In both world wars led the German economic war with submarines. The war navy opposed the herd tactics, with which groups were advanced by submarines over radio at convoys to the escort courses of the allied ones starting from 1940, tried the then to break by the safety device and to sink as much transportation area as only possible with torpedoes. In March 1943 the battle in the Atlantic experienced its high point. For the first time admiral Doenitz ' desire number of 100 submarines stood in the operational areas. Altogether the allied ones lost the record number of 105 ships with approximately 600,000 BRT, with a loss of 15 German submarines in this month in all sea-areas. The German submarine guidance determined "largest success" to have obtained but the critical evaluation resulted in the fact that after the first surprise attacks on the convoys air and sea-based defense had continued to increase, which most submarines were pressed by airplanes under water and then is enough for pursuits with depth charges was suspended. In April 1943 16 submarines are lost, in May the tremendous number of 41 - that was a boat per sunk freighter. At the end of May recalled Doenitz all submarines from the North Atlantic. The Atlantic battle was lost for the remainder of the war. How had it so far come? The reasons are various: Starting from 1943 the building of submarines had received absolute priority, the number of the allied ship new buildings began however those of the ships sunk by submarines to exceed. Equally like the building rate of the submarines grew, rose also its losses. The hopeless technical arrears in relation to the allied submarine hunt became substantial apparent. One drove invariably with the boats of the construction conditions of the late 30's optimized on high ueberwasserfahrt against the enemy. Under water a maximum speed of seven knots was hold outable for maximally 30 minutes. Only of dipping by the hour capable and on the water surface the instructed boats were helplessly delivered the modern electromagnetic locating methods and kryptologischen successes of the opponent. It proved now as fatal that little had happened at the gradual improvement of the proven boat types. IPB image The first really considerable measure, i.e. the nachruestung of the standard boat VII C with snorkel, benefitted the front only in February 1944. One wanted as next submarine generation equal the technological quantum transition: The "total submarine" with up to 25 knots underwater speed, driven with a walter turbine. When a front-ripe feasibility did not appear fast enough, Doenitz turned to a temporary solution: Using the aerodynamically clean bottom structure one production stages of walter submarine did not develop with the help of scaffolding large heavy-duty batteries the high sea-type XXI with 17 knots underwater maximum speed and as the smaller derivative of the coastal type XXIII. In an unparalleled schedule of work 170 of these boats was finished placed by June 1944 until April 1945 and brought in to a large extent. For the front however they came too late. The old boats carried the load of a hopeless fight with unreduced hardness and tremendous losses in the last two war years further and supported in such a way up to the bitter end the "myth of the grey wolves". The British historian Peter Padfield zollte with all criticism at German total warfare the German submarine drivers in its work "was Beneath the Sea" highest respect, by writing: "... they fought an inconceivably stoischen, courageous and altogether clean war with no longer brutal exceptions than that one, those the annals of the Royal Navy or the American submarine drivers verunstalten." End to page 2 far with page 3 Winner powers, whose submarine technology was past far behind the conditions of these revolutionary boat types, used the war booty to the know-how gain. From the Soviet and also American drafts of the first post-war period clearly the influences of the type XXI are recognizable. Submarines had carried, with no other naval warfare means knew the main load of the naval warfare the Germans better to go around. With the list of naval forces for the Federal Republic of Germany the submarine was included therefore promptly into planning. First beginnings decrease/go back to the year 1957. By elevation and complete overhaul of a sunk high sea-boat type XXI and two coastal boats type XXIII also the young Federal Navy could profit still from the Genialitaet of the last boat types of the Second World War and with the technology and the handling of this naval warfare means make itself familiar. Before the background of the completely changed strategic situation of West Germany as front state of NATO the submarine could be however no more platform for the guidance of oceanic economic war with herd tactics. In the case of an attack by Warsaw Pact applied it now to the navy to refuse to the opponent the unhindered use of the Baltic Sea as runway for the support of its land front and prevent landing operations. In sea-areas of clear opposing superiority like the middle and eastern Baltic Sea small, compact submarines with high combat capability were the suitable means for maritime forward defense. In the North Sea and adjacent sea-areas it was order of the submarines to participate by fight of opposing submarines and surface armed forces in the area safety device. In the typical application profile of the cold war it depended to surprise the advantage of the invisibility and heavy locatableness of the submarine up to the weapon delivery and too beyond that received and the opponent. far with page 4 The structure of a new German submarine weapon It is characterized by Germany imposed restriction of tonnage of the WEU to 500 tons, by the creation industriellen of a basis and by the search for a type of boat, which could become fair the enormous challenges of the order. In the Baltic Sea with its small water depths and its limited expansion the Warsaw Pact marine one the entire south coast from the Finnish sea bosom into the Luebecker bay was available. Antisubmarine chase federations could arise within fewer hours, flying antisubmarine chase means within minutes. German submarines had to therefore be sufficient for the employment under these conditions for special operational requirements, how they did not apply to most marine ones in the measure. Professor Ulrich Gabler with its Ingenieurkontor Luebeck (IKL) found a technical answer on the basis of the small coastal submarine of the type of world war XXIII. The class U 206 come out from the predecessor drafts U 201, 202 and 205 between 1973 and 1975 one activated. The selection of a general contractor had required the 1969 issued advertisement for the first time, who answers for the system integration, which had to manufacture logistic supportability and furnish the acceptance trial. This was the crucial step, which created the basis for the today's efficiency of the industriellen basis. It understands itself that shipyards, which could successfully accept such a challenge would be in the future also detached by the own navy able, to deliver submarines operationally. Therefore first export successes with derivatives of the class U 205 arrive to end of the sixties into the NATO countries Norway and Denmark. The German series of U 206 covered 18 boats of this class. Starting from end of the 80's twelve of the boats were modernized to the class U 206A. The structural alteration measures accelerated the data processing and shortened thereby the response time. With the attack ability reached by it on larger distance and at an earlier time the modernized boats would far better fulfill the order and increased its survivability. Ten these with new sonar -, situation development and weapon delivery systems the conditions at that time of the weapon technology adapted units still are in the service and still form the backbone of the German submarine weapon. IPB image With the class U 206A it concerns a conventional single-hull submarine optimized on the employment in the Baltic Sea. The driving battery powerful in relation to the boat displacement permits a maximum speed of 18 knots dipped, which can be held over several hours, and during small travel are unloading time by several days possible, up to loading the batteries to be again geschnorchelt must. The boat has with scarcely 50 m excellent maneuvering and depth tax characteristics, so that it can drive with water depths from under 20 meters dipped. It develops its full tactical abilities with depths of more largely 40 meters. far with page 5 The end of the cold war pushed the window for this singular draft quasi to new horizons up. While up to then the two marginal seas north and Baltic Sea, the Norwegian Sea, operate which Biskaya and waters defined around the British islands the exercise area, the boats in the third decade of their Indiensthaltung - since center of the 90's - routine in the entire Mediterranean and faced the US Navy already several times in the Littorals from new England into the Karibik as provocative exercise partners. The military employments of the boats in the eastern Mediterranean in the context of the operation Active Endeavor as contribution to the fight against the terror go now into the second year. They proved long that they are evenly not "only" coastal submarines. Further characteristics of U 206A are the amagnetische building method from austenitic steel and the small inherent noise radiation. From it also a large insensitivity to naval mines with magnet and acoustic fuzes as well as in relation to the magnetic anomaly detection results from air (WAD). The small size of only 500 tons offers a small goal measure to the active sonar detection. With wire-guided heavyweight torpedoes for surface target and submarine the boats a relatively high weapon additional load bring fight in eight torpedo pipes to the opponent. The estimate on the part of this opponent on the high point of the cold war documented itself as follows: "the danger of this modern... Submarines does not exist alone in the tactical and technical possibilities, it increases still by the fact that this weapon of attack is driven by crews, which are educated in the spirit of the fascist submarine elite thinking a relatively stable, well paid imperialistic military motive to have and to strengthened knowledge and abilities to refer be able. These crews are finally ready to use their life for imperialistic interests of power. It does not impress it that for example in the Second World War the submarine driver manipulated in the spirit of fascism survived only ten per cent... " (FKpt Dipl. Mil. Fox in the magazine "military affairs", GDR 1985). The today over 30 years old boats have three serious weaknesses, which were to be repaired only by new buildings despite the modernization measures above all: Reduced one own detection ability within the range of the low-frequent acoustics and the optics; Outside air dependence, i.e. obligation to snorkels and thus detectability with optical and electromagnetic sensors; Modern detection procedures only limited grown signatures, within the ranges low-frequent acoustics and infrared, in particular with snorkel enterprise. Already with the tactical demand of December 1987 the navy initiated the project U 212, in order to repair also deeply seizing innovations at one time all three weaknesses. I further down still return on that. further also part of 6 Export successes It was foreseeable that the again created submarine industry with the two competitive shipyards Howaldtswerke German threw to AG (HDW) and Rhine steel of North Sea works (RNSW) would stand after completion of the U 206-Serie before a serious extent of utilization gap. The WEU had been entitled to Germany in the meantime a contingent of six submarines with 1.000 tons of displacement, which could be used for the export. With large distance vision professor Gabler had transferred and to be IKL team the draft characteristics of the small German boats end of the 60's to the parallel draft of an export version displacing at the beginning of 1.000 tons, which should become starting from 1971 under the designation U 209 the epitome of the diesel electric submarine of German provenance and the substantial carrier of the export for more than three decades. IPB image the general contractor principle practiced with the series of U 206 proved as success prescription. The companies IKL, HDW and the trading firm Ferrostaal united to a consortium and operated after appropriate political agreement of the Federal Government in the federal security council first acquisition in the NATO states Greece and Turkey. Then the jump succeeded at the South American continent with Argentina as a customer, whose larger coastal states operate today all German submarines of the class U 209. 1973 extended the WEU the restriction of tonnage for the German building of submarines on now 1,800 tons without number of items delimitation. As customers important states in south and Southeast Asia, with South Korea end of the 80's followed finally also in Eastern Asia, whereby that interspersed itself know-how and transfer of technology by "Package of business" in the manufacture under licence ever more. Exemplarily for this the Turkey and South Korea stand, in whose shipyards the quantity production of German submarines - on the basis of material packages from Kiel - became the routine. In Greece HDW acquired 2002 threw light NIC Shipyards, with which the seriennummern 2 to 4 of the class U 214 are built, on which I in the following one returns. further also part of 7 The for the time being last boats of the class U 209 are since 2000 the three units for South Africa, under construction. The type boat was placed in November 2005 in Kiel in service. Opposite the class U 206 with U 209 the displacement increased on 1.000 to 1,500 tons had been used consistently for more redundancies, climatic and comfort improvement as well as extension by weapon additional load, operating range and abilities - while maintaining the German brand name of the absolute compactness. The amagnetische building method however remained reserving as characteristic alone the German navy. The draft of the IKL for a U 206-Derivat for Israel, which can be built in Great Britain, justified the appreciation, which attaches the Israeli navy since that time to submarines "larva in Germany" in the 70's. After in the course 2. The Gulf War the financing from the German household made possible was, began the building of the DOL pH in class with first two units. The third boat was delivered 1999. With the type developed since center of the 80's exclusively after Israeli demands it concerns 1,700 tons a displacing special draft. Export successes with first also 1,000 ton boat U 210, which was delivered as ULA class for Norway between 1989 and 1992, thought for Germany, coincide temporally with the paging, which the end of the cold war brought with itself. The fastidious military demands of the German navy for the extreme operational conditions of the northEuropean marginal seas had become in the international framework Pruefstein for non-nuclear submarines. They contributed crucially to the fact that industry with its product U 209 the world market guidance the German submarine could take over. End of the 80's already drove over 100 submarines of German origin on all seas. In and the early 80's 70's still independently the Emdener of North Sea works operating in the export could realize 209 with the type TR in competition to U 1700 for Argentina a draft, which did not develop no more further the bringing of the Gabler basic pattern, but a completely new concept would use, whose characteristics should become generally accepted later also with U 212: A hydrodynamically optimized Zweidecker with vorlich arranged tower and trim-neutral front tiefenrudern. With 25 knots maximum speed it exceeded all past conventional series submarines and was with 1.770 tons of standard displacement also the largest submarine built in the Germany of the post-war period. With the Falklands, since 1945, 1981 had kept an Argentine submarine long to the only naval warfare in the rest of the class U 209, the SAN LUIS, the British fleet over six weeks in breath. More the Battle Group of admiral Sandy Woodward had fired than 100 light weight torpedoes unsuccessfully on genuine and alleged contacts. The submarine came four times - however just as unsuccessfully - to the torpedo attack on the carrier INVINCIBLE and its escort units. As turned out later, the fire control system of the SAN LUIS was incorrectly verkabelt with the tubing set. Even if the disaster of a sinking of their flagship remained saved for the Britisher, then this only opposing submarine with a little experienced crew had proven - effect nevertheless to the "Force Multiplier", which distinguishes each submarine of German design: The ability for enormous force connection by heavy locatableness. far with page 8 U 212 sets new yardsticks German export submarines were characterized so far - with exception of the TR 1700 - not by precipitous innovations, but came out with small modernization steps in each case from the predecessor draft. This conservative beginning created confidence - particularly with marine ones of the third world - proved however as a Handicap propagandistically cannibalizable of the competitors. "The 209 sells like Japanese cars" wrote Jane's Defense Weekly, briefly before into Australia 1987 an order for billion was lost to the Swedish counter project. If the "racer" U 209 of a daily the Puste would go out, in time an alternative had to be available. As U 205/U only, so required it had made possible the success of U 209 for 206 still again a national new building project for the own navy, in order to secure for the German submarine industry success and fortbestand. But also the navy needed a successor, if the class U 206 would have reached its life span border for the end of the millenium. This should be first a boat with the type name U 211, optimized for the submarine hunt, with which the navy wanted to improve their contribution to area safety device and protection of the Atlantic sea lanes against the Soviet submarine threat crucially. In the design competition, in which IKL, HDW and TNSW with four drafts took part, at the beginning of 1986 the draft marked with TR 1600 was selected by TNSW for the further optimization. Since however the plan costs for shipbuilding the available did not permit the parallelism of two large projects, the inspector at that time of the navy, decided Vice Admiral Mann, in the spring 1987 for the antisubmarine chase frigate 123 and thus against the submarine 211. The decision entailed however the temporally preferred project engineering of the new class U 212. That this boat, whose setting into service we could celebrate in the last autumn is in its beginnings still another child of the cold war, can be read off from the tactical demand (TaF) from December 1987. Therein it, the boat means must be without reservation and flexibly in all parts of the area of operations with emphasis in the Baltic Sea applicable. Meant abilities the Kadetrinne deep to the dipped shallow water passage from the base Eckernfoerde over the only 17 meters south the Danish island Falster, fight against landing federations in the Danziger bay and area safeguard operations in the Norwegian Sea up to the submarine hunt in the North Sea. Above all however it meant large outside air independence and signature poverty within the ranges acoustics, Magnetik, hydrodynamics and thermal radiation. First of the twelve boats should be to in the middle of the 90's of the navy at the disposal, which last 2005 are delivered. We are today - related to the TaF - ten years in the delay, for household reasons the number of items drastically reduced and the life span border of U 206A perforce accordingly raised. For the acceleration of the project U 212 the long runner components present for U 211 in development were to be used. The obligation for the implementation Norwegian basis of a guidance and a weapon delivery of system (FueWES), received for U 211 with Norway in a MoU 1983, to U 212 were already transferred. The components with U 212, afflicted with the largest development risk, were the permanently excited driving motor and the gas cell module with solid electrolyte, with which outside air independence should be achieved. Already since beginning of the 80's the industry, supported by means of the federation, had at which development of a gas cell suitable for submarine drives worked, which had been extensively tested in liquid electrolyte a version ashore and on board a submarine for the operational suitability. IPB image since 1987 the TaF approved of was, had itself like that some in the world changed - the safetypolitical surrounding field, the strategic situation of again-united Germany, order and range of the armed forces, the arms emphasis, the defense budget - nothing was more like before. Together with technical problems with the development these basic conditions were making more difficult for the realization of a as fastidious project as U 212. They required adjustments and Nachsteuerungen, which led to a two and a half-year old delay, to finally 1994 the building contract over a 1. Loosely from first four units to be closed could. In the need-justifying phase document, which is "military-technical-economical demand" (MTWF) from May 1994 now no more speech from the Baltic Sea, but as emphasis of the area of operations "the European sea-areas and the North Atlantic" become fixed. As major tasks of U 212 are called: Independent, to a large extent unentdeckbare, long continuing operational readiness level in the area of operations without regional restriction; Undiscovered clearing up and supervising also of such sea-areas, in which other naval forces cannot to be used or be supposed; Bind opposing naval forces; Secure from sea-areas and key positions against attacks of opposing ueberwasser and underwater armed forces as well as refusal of the unhindered opposing use of sea-areas and sea lane lines through: + fighting against surface goals in edge and coastal seas and on high lake; + fighting against submarines alone or in the group with other swimming and flying submarine hunt forces far with page 9 For this required it additionally to the sonar circle basis of the equipment with extensive, above all low-frequent acoustic sensors in the form of Towed array and Flank array, which lend a multiple of the detection range of U 206A to the boat. To it to adapt again the torpedo armament with the heavyweight torpedo was DM 2 A4 in a separate project, which exceeds the predecessor model DM 2 A3 in speed and laufstrecke substantially. To be re-tooled a torpedo defense system is to the self-protection against attacking torpedoes, whose effectiveness is examined in detail at present. Nine gas cell modules to 34 KW each lend its most outstanding ability to the boat: Low-dipped operating over several weeks without external air supply. This means that the snorkel enterprise with Diesel generators can remain for battery loading limited on the phases of a mission - e.g. the transit threatened less by submarine hunt forces in the area of operations. In other words: The risk of the discovery by optical or electromagnetic means does not have to be received the commander of submarine no more for technical reasons. Only for tactical reasons - to communicate e.g. for a Sehrohrblick or over over radio - it is dependent on so dangerous showing of retractable instruments. For signature decrease the proven amagnetische building method was maintained. The Diesel generator system and other noise producers were installed in the rear cylinder of the druckkoerpers on a "swimming deck" under a noise cap. The oxygen for the gas cell plant is stored in liquid form in two tanks in the external ship, the hydrogen in metal hydride memory approximately around the rear pressure body region. Still the gas cell is not able to supply sufficient achievement for high speeds as this had been aimed at already 60 years before with the walter turbine submarine in vain. Beyond that the size of the oxygen tanks is a limiting factor for energy reserves. A conventional driving battery is therefore still necessary. U 212 is a hybrid submarine. Improved ones not-acoustic reconnaissance capacities by modern Sehrohre with laser ranging and heat picture plant, a EloUM system, mine detection sonar, sonar Intercept, inherent noise measurement plant and passive distance measuring sonar are further sensors, which enable U 212 for the efficient completion of the order. An expert system makes the acoustic passive for classification possible. Satellite communication within the UHF range and Inmarsat C supplement the conventional telecommunications equipment for VLF, HF, VHF and "LINE OF sight" UHF traffic. IPB image 1996 followed Italy over a memorandum OF Understanding (MoU) and an industrial co-operation agreement (ICA) between the shipyards HDW and Fincantieri the program U 212, which was renamed thereby in U 212A. In the context of an appropriate building contract developed in La Spezia of two almost identical boats in the proven package supply procedure. An option on further two units is open to the Italian navy. Co-operation entailed a revision of the draft, in order to correspond to the Italian demand after submerged depth increase, about which also the German boats profited. The detail construction had too far progressed, in order to make for Italy possible still large manufacturing portions. For important components, e.g. a part of the retractable instruments and the steering and however Italian subcontractors received the addition for all six boats which can be built. far with page 10 The new export draft U 214 As once the export boat U 209 with its evolutionary over the decades developed further derivatives had come out from the German U 205/U 206-Entwurf, then now - nearly 30 years later - on the basis of U 212 somewhat completely new could develop. Brought on those handy formula "U 209 + U 212 = U 214", began 1996 the development world-wide first of the export submarine with gas cell drive. Already in February 2000 the first building contract with the Greek navy could be closed and the building of the type boat began one year later in Kiel. The remaining in the meantime on four boats extended series develop with light NIC Shipyards in Skaramanga with Athens. A building contract over three exclusively boats U 214 which can be built in South Korea followed likewise 2000, the building contract for two Portuguese boats which can be built in Germany 2004. Together with the remainder work of the U 209-Auftrags for South Africa this is the current order books of the German submarine industry. IPB image The 1.700-Tonnen-Entwurf U 214 larger in relation to U 212A around 250 tons is compact like all submarines of German provenance. Equipped with large range and high combat capability he possesses exzellente driving and load parameters by his relatively large driving battery and its two high speed Diesels. The 2 x of 120 KW gas cell modules bring however in the outside air-independent (AIP7) enterprise less achievement on the wave than the 9 x of 34 KW modules for the smaller U 212A-Boot. While U 212A with only one Diesel generator and its relatively strong gas cell is rather a AIP boat with conventional booster, it behaves in reverse with U 214. With the characteristics of the relative to long pulled Eindeckers, the ferrousmagnetic building method, the eight expiration torpedo pipes and the vorlich arranged tiefenruder the relationship becomes clear U 209. Permasyn engine, high automation degree, signature decrease, Towed and Flank array sonar as well as torpedo defense system is characteristics, which the draft has together with U 212A. Demands of the foreign customers and later the development with the accordingly recent technology conditions, begun opposite the German boat around approx. ten years, had however also the implementation from components to the consequence, those for the German navy only in 2. U 212A to be loosely considered can. In addition count: Execution one of the two Sehrohre as Optronikmast, tactical data link system, active sonar and special combat float an air-lock. Beyond that U 214 is prepared for the firing lake and landgoalable missile of the Sub Harpoon. far with page 11 Second lot U 212A and the Potenzial for the future The nineties saw the German navy in particular in the employment to the peacekeaping measures in the Adria. Since beginning of the fight against the terror their units from the Mediterranean challenges completely new in the Arab sea - operate compared with the decades of practicing for a relatively improbable large war at the north flank. The defense policy guidelines from May 2003 formulated the new order, and the conception of the German Federal Armed Forces from August 2004, derived from them, converts it: Transformation is called the sequential process, in order to make the armed forces with a consistent and a cross-service one "joint" for adjustment for the most probable tasks fit, in order to increase and receive their serviceability in the long term crucially. Conflict prevention, crisis accomplishment and peacekeaping measures including the fight against the international terror - those are the tasks, in relation to which the national defense became subordinate. It concerns the entire spectrum of fighting led with high intensity against regular armed forces over stabilization operations up to answers to the phenomenon of the denationalization of the war with its asymmetrical threats. The German navy is in the four years since the opening of the fight against the terror - also with submarines - in distant sea-areas with alliance and coalition partners in the continuous employment. That means bringing their maritime abilities into the again conceived three armed forces categories - intervene -, stabilization and support forces - and it means to create the transition the "Escort Navy" to the "Expeditionary Navy". Submarines are a firm and indispensable component of this maritime contribution, in order to be able to cover the underwater portion of the total spectrum of the naval warfare guidance. It applies to develop the strengths further, which always distinguished the German navy as valuable ally, in particular in marginal sea warfare - however no more before the own entry door, but with the ability to world-wide employment. In addition requires it improved staying power and larger penetration ability with more precise and spacerable weapon effect - also from lake ashore. For connected warfare in interaction with own and allied units of all armed services beyond that the ability is indispensable for interlaced conduct of operations - NetOpFue. As the drafts of the four boats of the 1. Loose of U 212A at the beginning of the 90's and their employment principles were formulated, were "NetOpFue" developed if necessary a vision. They possess therefore the abilities necessary for it only reduced. Like that e.g. the nachruestung is intended by Tactical DATA left, Collaboration RKS Sea, Battleforce email and MCCIS. In this year is the building contract for 2. The class U 212A with two further units to be closed loosely, so that the boats can approach starting from 2012. IPB image to place over surely that these high-quality platforms without restrictions can be fellow players in the modern effect group of the reaction force, are opposite that 1. To make loosely U 212A adjustments. These cover the integration of additional systems and technically far developed components apart from the capability for interlaced conduct of operations also. 2. Ship-structurally to a large extent 1 becomes loose with that. Loosely identically its. Only within the tower range it is to be extended slightly, in order to take up and Wachstumspotenzial reproach an additional retractable instrument for SHF SatCom. Accomplished for the adjustments will since January 2005 one planning and design phase, in order to become fair the demands of the new arms procedure CPM regarding realization risk, economy and verkuerzung of the realization time. 2. The class U 212A particularly within the following ranges crucially one trains loosely: Communication system for interlaced conduct of operations and the ability for communication from the depth with the help of the communications buoy "Callisto" in development; Improved guidance and weapon delivery system by removal of Obsoleszenzen of the hardware and integration of new subsystems; Integrated sonar system with substitution of the Flank array by a again developed planar side antenna for the further increase of detection range and clearing-up ability; Replacement one of the two Sehrohre by a Optronikmast for the improvement of the clearing-up ability when simultaneous decrease detectability; Integration of a combat float air-lock to the improvement of security and efficiency when spending special forces of the navy, which with the 1. Loosely still by the torpedo pipes is made; Tropikalisierung of the air condition technology for world-wide employment. The strength of the submarine is its "invisibility". It requires a large expenditure of submarine hunt means in all three dimensions, in order to determine alone the presence of a submarine - and a still larger expenditure, in order to classify or fight it. To the hunt for a submarine with such pronounced "stealth characteristics" like U 212A only one handful is marine ones at all able - and those rank among our allied ones or friends. The British failures in the fight against the SAN LUIS with the Falklands underline the strengths of the submarine just like demonstrative sinking of the Argentine cruiser BELGRANO by the British submarine HMS CONQUEROR, which was sufficient, in order to regard the Argentine surface fleet as the remainder of the war in the port. Even if a submarine in the area of operations is only assumed, its effect already begins. Depending upon tactical situation and/or political instruction conscious giving up its operational readiness level is to the commander as escalating measure at the disposal. It refuses the unhindered use of sea-areas and sea lane lines to the opponent and is capable of destroying impacts against his ueberwasser and submarine forces. far with page 12 The submarine is an enormous "Force Multiplier", because a multiple can be neutralized bound at submarine hunt platforms - or even a whole fleet. In particular the relatively small, outside air-independent submarine with high combat capability and outstanding Stealth characteristics such as U 212A can successfully take over this role before opposing coasts - into the Littorals -, where own and/or allied surface naval warfare means can not be used because of opposing superiority or other submarines because of their size. Primary task of the submarine is and remains the fight against naval forces. As submarine hunter unfolds it in the group with the frigate and flying antisubmarine chase means its largest effect. The armament of U 212A is in the foreseeable future still that torpedo. To new, hochagile DM 2 steered over glass fiber wire A4 permits engagements distances until the far beyond horizon and in relation to the predecessor model to a true "standoff weapon" one developed further. However it is suitable only against ueberwasser and submarine goals and means themselves in principle the highest escalation stage, the "unit kill", i.e. sinking the opponent. Anti-ship missiles against it are weapons, which usually make the "mission possible kill", i.e. the continuation of the order with the met opponent prevent, without sinking it necessarily. Six nations, which operate German export submarines, are equipped with moderately severe missiles of the type Sub Harpoon. Portugal plans for its boats under construction the procurement of the Sub Harpoon block II with "country attack capability". Naturally also U 212A possesses in principle the Potenzial for scaffolding this or a similarly efficient missile and thus for the effect of lake ashore. In an experimental study zzt. the feasibility is examined by IDAS (Interactive Defence and Attack system for submarines), a system, which could not lend U 212A so far world-wide for submarines available abilities. It concerns a light, wire-guided missile, which can be used against antisubmarine chase helicopter, lake and offshore land goals. Due to the steering control by "one into the loop" as well as the automatic tracking with the IR seeker become even the fight of mobile land goals possible. If the decision should fall to the entrance into the development phase for the system, then a procurement is conceivable in the next decade. About further - partly of export customer knocked against - arming options for submarines in the industry one thinks. In addition the integration of a 30-mm-Maschinenkanone with the designation "Muraena" counts into a multi-function driving out mast, which could not lend conceivable effect possibilities to the submarine in asymmetrical scenarios so far. A second role wins for submarines increasingly in meaning: Those the covered clearing-up and intelligence collection. Monitoring and safety device of sea areas, particularly then, if for subsequent operations a safe surrounding field must be created, contributions for crisis early recognition, determination of military and employment-relevant non-military activities, clearing up objects at coasts and in ports - this task list could be continued at will. , where in flat waters of the Littorals submarines of German origin can already unfold their full freedom of movement, larger - above all nuclear floated - units are not even to be dipped in a the position. Our compact submarines make the multiplicity of predominantly acoustic, in addition, not-acoustic sensors platforms with enormous Potenzial. The submarines of the class U 206A prove at present in the Mediterranean with the anti-terror operation Active Endeavor already with its limited possibilities their value as "invisible eyes and ears" of the commander. The more will be able to fill out this role the boats of the class U 212A with its high speed periscopes, its satellite communication and in the future with optronic sensors as well as tactical data link binding. far with page 13 Applicable underwater drones (UUV's, AUV's) or flight drones from the submarine (UAV's) promise further Wachstumspotenzial in the area of the clearing-up. With the same multi-function driving out mast, how it was conceived for the automatic cannon "Muraena", built the company Gabler mechanical engineering recently a demonstrator for the army flight drone "Aladdin" as alternative "pay load". A third role, which German submarines always controlled and which gains significance, is finally the ability for covered landing and resuming special forces. If the combat floats on the past boats must out-swim still over the torpedo pipes, then they become with 2. U 212A four-man an air-lock to use loosely and also extensive equipment in pressure resistant containers to carry can. IPB image It can recapitulatory be stated that submarines "larva in Germany" due to their characteristics such as compactness, heavy locatableness, staying power and high combat capability a majority of the requirements to already be sufficient, which place today's and future scenarios at underwater platforms. They have their price, but they extend the maritime ability spectrum of the German Federal Armed Forces and thus the military options in the hands of the political guidance in singular way. With the historical-tactical conference of this year of the fleet the inspector of the navy and the commander of the fleet of the "three R's" and its meaning for the navy spoke: From Readiness and Responsiveness the conditions for Relevance would develop. This applies also to the submarines of the German navy. They are "ready", because high-level technology as well as high-quality training of the crews guarantees an outstanding readiness of application. They are "responsive", because they possess the necessary Wachstumspotenzial, in order on changes, to which the order is subject today and in the future to be able to react with the necessary flexibility. And they are "relevant" as naval warfare means, because their abilities are recognized about the own guidance, about the alliance and about potenziellen opponents and understood and so the Reputation and thus the influence of the German navy to a large extent to increase. German submarines of the post-war period have one over forty-year old success history. With them Germany has today the best non-nuclear submarines of the world. On the men and for quite some time also women, who drive these units, the navy is also right proud. They out-stepped long from the shade of the "grey wolves".
    >Facit Omnia Voluntas<

  12. #12
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    U214 and U212 are better than the Skorpene or however it's spelt.

  13. #13
    Francois
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    Quote Originally Posted by Defcon 6
    U214 and U212 are better than the Skorpene or however it's spelt.
    Do you mean to sound like a specialist? LOL

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Francois
    Do you mean to sound like a specialist? LOL
    The U212 and U214 are both superior platforms.

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