Praxus

Yah, so let's say they are loaded with that round and they add GPS to it.

They could hit all of Western Europe excluding a small sliver down the center of it. With the 200nm round we could hit all of Western Europe.

lurker

All that is good if you have an enemy with no airforce, no subs, no mines, no SSM's.
All those 200 miles are just minutes of the flight time for any of the modern jets.
The closer you get to the coast line - the lesser time you leave for your defences to react.

Almost all of the modern SSM's have coastal variant - Harpoon, Exoset etc. etc.
Russia been making coastal versions of their SSM's for ages (except they are prohibited for export because of their long range).

In modern world - battleships are obsolete, they are servants of the Her Majesty Carrier, they are just expensive toys. The only use for the BB's now is coastal bombardment and landing support.
Carrier can do all of this, plus ASuW, AAW and ASW on it's own.

Thats why there is no BB's in service. Nor will be.

__________________
Long time we thought that a million monkeys in front of a million typewriters would eventually type William Shakespeare's complete works.
After invention of the Internet, we understand that it's not true.

Praxus

Guess what, a single BB in a single hour can deliver more firepower then an entire sorty from an Aircraft Carrier.

A BB is the most well defended ship in the United States Navy, it has something like 18 inches of steel plate around the side. Anti-Ship missiles will have a very hard time penetrating even if they get past the defenses on the escorts and the defenses on the BB itself.

A BB with exteneded range rounds would not be sitting 2 miles off the beach, it would be a good 20 miles or so off.

Actually it's because it doesn't please politictians constintuants.

lurker

Deliver to where? To the enemy ships? Any commander that allowed enemy ships to get so close will be relieved, and you know that.

Deliver to the coastal targets? There is much cheaper platforms to do that, like cruisers or DDs.

Imho, nobody wants to put all the eggs into the single basket, which is BB. It maybe the most defended, but it's still not invulnerable.


And there is "fire and forget" torpedoes with ranges up to 40-70 nautical miles.
You just need to put that thing in the water.

Anon

Most modern antiship missiles won't do **** to an Iowa unless you slam it with about a dozen of them.

And by the way, where would the rest of the battlegroup be during this little exercize of yours lurker? Off getting tea?

Nope, a Battleship escorted by Aegis warships and a few 688i's would be a very, very difficult target to hit.

During ODS Iraq had all kinds of Exocets and Silkworms and couldn't get even a single missile through the battleships escort screen(and they tried on several occasions).

Battleships are not obsolete.

Anon

"A BB with exteneded range rounds would not be sitting 2 miles off the beach, it would be a good 20 miles or so off."

Actually a BB with the ER Darpa sabot shells would stand off about 70 nautical miles from the shore.

Until the coastal defenses, air force, and enemy navy were quelled.

Then the BB could close to within 2 miles of the shore and reach way deep inland.

Carriers are great, but planes can be shot down.

Try shooting down a Mach 3 13" sabot shell with a case hardened steel case.

Good luck.

Every 30 seconds just ONE Iowa class battleship firing ONLY it's primary rifles can put 24,300lbs(11,046Kg) of steel on target.

That's every thirty seconds for two hours straight.

That's FIVE MILLION EIGHT HUNDRED THIRTY TWO THOUSAND POUNDS OF STEEL(2,650,909Kg).........in just two hours. One ship.

That's the equivelant firepower of about 10 carrier air wings, in just one ship...and that's not even including it's TLAMs or 5" guns.

Unlike VLS systems, the battleships 16" guns can be replenished at sea while on station via helicopter.

lurker

Don't like to loose? (where is the rest of the topic?)

Praxus

The host went down and they couldn't restore it at the point they ended at. So it got sent back quite a few days.

Anon

Yep.

Garry

stating that modern missiles and torpedos can not hurt Iowa... is indeed a brave statement.... I thought that US do remember Pearl Harbour - when it became clear to everybody that days of large steel coffins like Iowa are over..... Today when modern systems are threating any big object floating on water (doesn't matter Russian heavy rocket ship or American carrier) it has no chance at all. Aegis itself makes a good taget for few P270 Moskit.

Hope Iowa never meets this:
___________________________
The SS-N-19 Shipwreck, or "P-700 Granit", was in turn built as a follow-on to the P-500. Work was begun in 1969, but development was also protracted, with test flights in 1975 and introduction to service in 1982.

P-700 GRANIT / SS-N-19 SHIPWRECK:
_____________________ _________________
spec metric english
_____________________ _________________
wingspan 2.6 meters 8 feet 6 inches
length 10 meters 32 feet 10 inches
total weight 3,250 kilograms 7,165 pounds
speed Mach 1.6
range 445 kilometers 275 MI / 240 NMI
____________________ _________________

Source: http://www.vectorsite.net/twcruz5.html

While Aegis will be handled with P270 Moskit:
____________________________________________
..................A high supersonic speed was specified to reduce the target’s time to deploy self-defense weapons, indeed the weapon was designed specifically to strike ships with the Aegis command and weapon control system and the SM-2 surface-to-air missile...........
...................

The 3M82 "Mosquito" missiles have the fastest flying speed among all antiship missiles in today's world. It reaches Mach 3 at a high altitude and its maximum low-altitude speed is M2.2, triple the speed of the American Harpoon. The missile takes only 2 minutes to cover its full range and manufacturers state that 1-2 missiles could incapacitate a destroyer while 1-5 missiles could sink a 20000 ton merchantman. An extended range missile, 9M80E is now available.

When slower missiles, like the French Exocet are used, the maximum theoretical response time for the defending ship is 150-120 seconds. This provides time to launch countermeasures and employ jamming before deploying "hard" defense tactics such as launching missiles and using quick-firing artillery. But the 3M82 "Mosquito" missiles are extremely fast and give the defending side a maximum theoretical response time of merely 25-30 seconds, rendering it extremely difficult employ jamming and countermeasures, let alone fire missiles and quick-firing artillery.

The air-launched version, officially called ASM-MMS and apparently also Kh-4, is intended specially for Su-27K (Su-33) carrier-based fighter aircraft. It was for the first time shown to the CIS leaders in February 1992 in Machulishche and then to the public in August 1992 at the Moscow Air Show in Zhukovskiy. The missile is propelled by a dual (rocket-jet) engine operating by the same principle as the Kh-31 engine. The missile, suspended under the aircraft, has a folding wing. The missile is guided by an autopilot during the initial fight stage, with possible correction by the aircraft pilot, and by active radar during the final flight stage.
_______________________________________
Source: http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...sia/moskit.htm

lurker

Huh huh You are new
http://worldaffairsboard.com/showthread.php?t=1721

Anon

Read the thread before you post assertions that where already countered earlier in the thread.

Praxus

A single battleship with conventional 16" rounds can deliver the ammount of firepower as 12 Carriers.

A single battleship with a mix of conventional 16" rounds and long range GPS guided Saboted rounds can deliver the ammount of firepower as 4.5 carriers out to and including 100nm away using already demonstrated technology.

During Bosnia 55% of the flights were cancled due to weather. A battleship on the other hand would almost never have to cancle fire missions because of the weather and can provide true tacticle fires unlike fighters, bombers, and cruise missiles.

lurker

LoL. Most of the battles in Bosnia were more than 50 miles inland. US controlling zone is more than 90 miles inland.

What use of the battleship there?

Do not forget that you still will need an air support for targeting.

Praxus

Didn't I just say the extended range rounds have a range of 100nm?

The upgraded BB's would carry up to 8 UAV's.

Don't forget that most of the fire would be called by Infantry and Armored Forces relaying to them the GPS coradnets(sp?).