New european frigates/destroyers...

SloMax · 06-11-2005, 13:38 PM

Which class is the best overall?

Netherlands: De Zeven Provincien class
Spain: Alvaro de Bazan class
Norway: Nansen class
Germany: Sachsen class

Link for informations:http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/

rickusn · 06-11-2005, 14:47 PM

The Norwegian Nansen class is not optomised for AAW like the other three and therefore a smaller less capable warship. But perfect for the Norwegian needs.

The other three are quite similar in capabilities and were originally to be a "co-operative venture" between those nations.

The ships as built have many differences the most notable being Spains decision to go with the US AEGIS system vice the APAR system of the Netherlands and Germany, CIWS differ(Germany two RAM missle launchers, Netherlands two Goalkeeper gun systems and Spain one Meroka gun system), the German ships will carry two helos vice one for the other two also the German ships have a 76mm gun vice the 127mm of the other two.

IMHO the "best" of those three is a moot point. And in any case is hard to say unless they get involved in a "shooting" war at some point.

Orcaborealis · 06-11-2005, 16:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rickusn

The Norwegian Nansen class is not optomised for AAW like the other three and therefore a smaller less capable warship. But perfect for the Norwegian needs.

But it is opimised for ASW, with state of the art sonars, and should be more capable than the others in this. The Nansen class will not be perfect for Norwegian needs untill they can find money to buy SM-2 IIIB missiles and more mk41 VLS cells.

The other three are quite similar in capabilities and were originally to be a "co-operative venture" between those nations.

The ships as built have many differences the most notable being Spains decision to go with the US AEGIS system vice the APAR system of the Netherlands and Germany, CIWS differ(Germany two RAM missle launchers, Netherlands two Goalkeeper gun systems and Spain one Meroka gun system), the German ships will carry two helos vice one for the other two also the German ships have a 76mm gun vice the 127mm of the other two.

IMHO the "best" of those three is a moot point. And in any case is hard to say unless they get involved in a "shooting" war at some point.

Yeah, the real point is that these ships are a lot more capable than the ships they are replacing. They have sensors comparable to the Burke DDGs, but less VLS cells.

The British Type 45 deserves a mention though..and let's not forget the French/Italian Horizon class...what impresses me witht the Type 45 Daring class is the extreme radar mast, allowing the Sampson active phased array radar to be mounted very high up.

Orca

rickusn · 06-11-2005, 17:51 PM

Yes they will all be very capable ships.

I do have reservations on the SAMPSON and EMPAR radars. As to be mounted so high in the ship they are rotater vs fixed array radars. Making mechanical malfunction a constant threat if I understand correctly.

All four radars APAR, SAMPSON, EMPAR and SPY-1(AEGIS) have pros and cons.

SPY-1(AEGIS) is quite old now although continually updated. And being low in the ship reduces its effectiveness against sea-skimming threats.

rickusn · 06-12-2005, 14:04 PM

You might ask why the size /tonnage difference between the French/Italian/UK and the German/Netherlands/Spanish ships.

The answer mostly lies in the increased range(4000-5000 vs 7000nm) and endurance(21 days vs 45) of the former group.

I forgot to mention another difference between the German, Netherlands & Spanish ships: 32 Mk 41 VLS/40 Mk 41 VLS/48 Mk 41 VLS respectively. Due more to cost constraints rather than ship size limitations as might be suspected.

The French, Italian & UK ships all have 48 Sylver VLS.

In addition while Evolved Sea Sparrow Missles can be quad-packed the ASTER 15 cannot.

Also Mk 41 VLS can be equipped with Tomahawk land-attack missles and Sylver cannot.

06-11-2005, 13:38 PM	#1 (permalink)
SloMax Contributor Join Date: 06-05-05 Location: EU Posts: 303	New european frigates/destroyers... Which class is the best overall? Netherlands: De Zeven Provincien class Spain: Alvaro de Bazan class Norway: Nansen class Germany: Sachsen class Link for informations:http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/

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06-11-2005, 14:47 PM	#2 (permalink)
rickusn *Military Professional* Join Date: 08-09-03 Posts: 1,317	The Norwegian Nansen class is not optomised for AAW like the other three and therefore a smaller less capable warship. But perfect for the Norwegian needs. The other three are quite similar in capabilities and were originally to be a "co-operative venture" between those nations. The ships as built have many differences the most notable being Spains decision to go with the US AEGIS system vice the APAR system of the Netherlands and Germany, CIWS differ(Germany two RAM missle launchers, Netherlands two Goalkeeper gun systems and Spain one Meroka gun system), the German ships will carry two helos vice one for the other two also the German ships have a 76mm gun vice the 127mm of the other two. IMHO the "best" of those three is a moot point. And in any case is hard to say unless they get involved in a "shooting" war at some point.

06-11-2005, 17:51 PM	#4 (permalink)
rickusn *Military Professional* Join Date: 08-09-03 Posts: 1,317	Yes they will all be very capable ships. I do have reservations on the SAMPSON and EMPAR radars. As to be mounted so high in the ship they are rotater vs fixed array radars. Making mechanical malfunction a constant threat if I understand correctly. All four radars APAR, SAMPSON, EMPAR and SPY-1(AEGIS) have pros and cons. SPY-1(AEGIS) is quite old now although continually updated. And being low in the ship reduces its effectiveness against sea-skimming threats.

06-12-2005, 14:04 PM	#5 (permalink)
rickusn *Military Professional* Join Date: 08-09-03 Posts: 1,317	You might ask why the size /tonnage difference between the French/Italian/UK and the German/Netherlands/Spanish ships. The answer mostly lies in the increased range(4000-5000 vs 7000nm) and endurance(21 days vs 45) of the former group. I forgot to mention another difference between the German, Netherlands & Spanish ships: 32 Mk 41 VLS/40 Mk 41 VLS/48 Mk 41 VLS respectively. Due more to cost constraints rather than ship size limitations as might be suspected. The French, Italian & UK ships all have 48 Sylver VLS. In addition while Evolved Sea Sparrow Missles can be quad-packed the ASTER 15 cannot. Also Mk 41 VLS can be equipped with Tomahawk land-attack missles and Sylver cannot.

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