platinum786

I've got a few random navy questions some of you guys might be able to answer.

[1]How good is the harpoon II. Yeah i guess you guys know Pakistan is buying it, and i want to know what is it like? The accuracy i hear is superb, but does it have a long enough reach, and does mach 1 really cut it these days?

[2] The british Seawolf CIWS, is it the best in the world? AFAIK the type 24's are the most protected ships in the world, if that is true, why so? Whats the difference between that and other CIWS?

[3] Submarine hunting, is it possible to find a sub using a P-3C Orion and to destroy it? I saw a film once where a sub was "hijacked" (the US military was doing a real exercise and pretending the sub was 'jacked, so that only the people at the top knew,everyone else thought it was real), and they used these planes to attack the sub, can that be done?

TopHatter

Well, rickusn is our resident naval expert....but I'll dive in and see if I confuse things first

1. I'll let Rick handle this one though

2. The Sea Wolf is, from what I understand, a capable system. It first deployed in 1977 (IIRC) and is now in it's 3rd generation. It started out being launched from a trainable 6-round launcher and now being fired from a VLS
The designers claim that it can intercept a 114mm shell. If true, this means the system probably has a killer reaction time.
I can't really comment on it's standing compared to other systems from an educated or experience point of view though.

3. Yes, a P-3 is definitely capable of tracking and killing a submarine. That is basically their primary mission, Anti-Submarine Warfare. They carry sensors, the weapons and the legs to stay in the air a good long while.
Naturally, some submarines are going to be easier to track and kill than others.
I read an account of a USN Ohio-class making fools of an Orion crew and then taunting them about it on the radio.
Not very nice of the boomer , but it was the Orion's job to "kill" the Ohio, and they came off second best. (and the SSBN's skipper was hella pissed off about the radio remarks)

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rickusn

Harpoon II is a poor mans Tomahawk.

Harpoon II started out as a kit to retrofit existing Harpoons. Denmark was the first customer. New missles are being built for export.

From Combat Fleets:

1) Upgraded Seeker
2) Improved Target Discrimination
3) GPS Capability
4) Data-link added
5) Several waypoint turns can be made before terminal homing on the target

Exerpts from an article:

" The test demonstrated the Harpoon Block II weapon system's open-ocean ability to select the proper target using the Navy's Mobile Sea Target and another target ship, the MK-35 SEPTAR."

"Block II improves strike capabilities in congested littoral environments and adds the ability to attack land-based coastal targets.

Harpoon Block II also provides accurate long-range guidance by incorporating the low-cost inertial measuring unit from the Boeing Joint Direct Attack Munition program; and the software, mission computer, integrated Global Positioning System/Inertial Navigation System and the GPS antenna and receiver from the Standoff Land Attack Missile Expanded Response."

From globalsecurity.org:

"The Harpoon Block II is an upgrade program to improve the baseline capabilities to attack targets in congested littoral environments. The upgrade is based on the current Harpoon. Harpoon Block II will provide accurate long-range guidance for coastal, littoral and blue water ship targets by incorporating the low cost integrated Global Positioning System/Inertial Navigation System (GPS/INS) from the Joint Direct Attack Munitions (JDAM) program currently under development by Boeing. GPS antennae and software from Boeing's Standoff Land Attack Missile (SLAM) and SLAM Expanded Response (SLAM ER) will be integrated into the guidance section. The improved littoral capabilities will enable Harpoon Block II to impact a designated GPS target point. The existing 500 pound blast warhead will deliver lethal firepower against targets which include coastal anti-surface missile sites and ships in port. For the anti-ship mission, the GPS/INS provides improved missile guidance to the target area. The accurate navigation solution allows target ship discrimination from a nearby land mass using shoreline data provided by the launch platform. These Block II improvements will maintain Harpoon's high hit probability while offering a 90% improvement in the separation distance between the hostile threat and local shorelines. Harpoon Block II will be capable of deployment from all platforms which currently have the Harpoon Missile system by using existing command and launch equipment. A growth path is envisioned for integration with the Vertical Launch System and modern integrated weapon control systems."

Exerpt from Boeing:

"Harpoon Block II is capable of executing both land-strike and anti-ship missions. To strike targets on land and ships in port, the missile uses GPS-aided inertial navigation to hit a designated target aimpoint. The 500-pound blast warhead delivers lethal firepower against a wide variety of land-based targets, including coastal defense sites, surface-to-air missile sites, exposed aircraft, port/industrial facilities and ships in port. For conventional anti-ship missions, such as open ocean or near-land, the GPS/INS improves midcourse guidance to the target area. The accurate navigation solution allows users to discriminate target ships from islands or other nearby land masses or ships. These Block II improvements maintain Harpoon's high hit probability even against ships very close to land. "

A reattack feature and an extended fuselage(doubles the range 75nm to 150nm) are available.

The USN apparently has forgone procurement of new missles or retofit of existing missles with the newest upgrades.

In fact the newest Burkes the Flight IIA versions arent even equipped with the missle(17 in service and 36 building, contracted for or planned).

The first 28 often go to sea with less than the maximum eight.

They could be deleted from the CG-47 Cruisers as they receve mid-life upgrades.

Targeting is more important than speed in this case.

But certainly slower speed makes the Harpoon relatively more vulnerable to interception than a supersonic missle.

Franco Lolan

What is the USN's primary surface to surface missile? SM-2? Harpoon II? Tomahawk?

TopHatter

Depends on what your target is:

Anti-Ship is the Harpoon. There are no Tomahawk Anti Ship Missiles (TASM) left in the fleet. You can definitely flip an SM-2 at a ship and royally mess up their day though.

Land targets - By and large, the Tomahawk. It also has few different versions for different targets such as airfields and such.

Joseph

What all elements comprise a Carrier battle Group?
Suppose INS Vikramaditya goes for sailing..which all ships might accompany her?
Can a CV fire missiles like Brahmos?

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FrontierIndia Forums

We changed!!

Anon

The USNs primary anti-ship missile(surface launch) nowadays is the TACTOM and the SM-2MR IIIB.

TopHatter

TACTOM can be used in the ASuW role? Hmph, why wasn't I notified?

For that matter, I wouldn't even want to get hit by an SM-2 unless I was on a battleship

Anon

TACTOM has man-in-the-loop IIR terminal guidance. Therefore, TACTOM can actually be manually steered into ANY part of a targetted vessel.

Nice capability, eh?