rickusn

SeaWaves Magazine
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SPS Galicia is seen undertaking amphibious training last month in Northern European waters. This excellent joint Dutch-Spanish ship type is being adopted by Portugal as well. It appears that the purchase by the latter of the former USS Sides and George Philip has been cancelled to pay for the purchase. The Belgian Navy had hoped to buy one of these ships but plans now appear to have been permanently shelved. Frank Behling photo.

Sea Toby

I was under the impression from Armada magazine of May 2005 that Portugal spent 210 million Euros for a German HDW 10000 ton NPL. Of course, Armada magazine may be wrong....

HDW also offered a smaller 8,000 ton ship remarkably similar although different than New Zealand's MPV.... The HDW 10000 tons ship has a flight deck midships for 4 helicopters, whereas the 8,000 ton ship has a flight deck aft for 2 helicopters.

vader4902

Portugal bought 2 M-type Dutch Frigates

VAN NES (F833) - to be delivered December 2008
VAN GALEN (F834) - to be delivered November 2009




In May 2006, Portugal's National Defense Minister, Luís Amado, showed interest in buying two Karel Doorman class frigates to replace the two remaining frigates of the João Belo class in service with the Portuguese Navy — instead of buying two frigates of the Oliver Hazard Perry class, offered by the United States. A committee of the Portuguese government arrived at the Netherlands to evaluate the condition of two frigates to be bought.

In the end of May 2006, the Portuguese Government Official News Bulletin published the order for the creation of an Official Portuguese Navy's "technical team" to supervise the transfer of two M-Class Frigates to Portugal.

On November 1st 2006, the Portuguese Defense Minister Nuno Severiano Teixeira signed a contract for the purchase of the frigates Van Nes and Van Galen. Van Nes will be transfered to Portugal on December 1, 2008 and Van Galen on November 1, 2009

official news
http://www.marine.nl/nieuws/?article...fregatten.html

http://www.mindef.nl/actueel/nieuws/...rportugal.aspx

The 2 OHP Frigates FFG-12 and FFG-14 will not come to Portugal (fortunately)

JBodnar39

Okay, forgive my ignorance, but why are these preferred over the Perrys?


The 2 OHP Frigates FFG-12 and FFG-14 will not come to Portugal (fortunately)[/quote]

PubFather

[/quote]
I believe the Karel Doormans are slightly newer in both design and age compared to the OHP's. The Karel Doormans also offer a 16 cell VLS for SeaSparrow (Mark 48) which IIRC could be later updated to ESSM quad-packed. They also have 8 Harpoons.

Even if the Perry's retained the Mark 13 laucher and SM1's in the interim, there is very little growth potential in them without a major(ly) expensive refit. SM1 is not a missile that has any growth potential.

Oh, and a little bit of "buy European" as well...

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vader4902

Hi!

Well, several reasons:

-Age/obsolence:
the OHPs that were supposed to come to Portugal were the FFG-12 and the FFG-14, the last 2 of the "short-hull" type.
They joined the USN in the early 80s and were decommisioned in 2003 being mouthballed since then in Bremerton, WA.
The 2 KDs are from 1993 and 1994(more than 10 years younger), are still in service with the Dutch Navy.
The transfer to Portugal will be a so-called "hot-transfer" as oposed to the OHPs which would be a "cold-transfer"
The Van Nes will still serve the Dutch Navy until end of 2007, then will be decommissioned from dutch service, will go for maintenance and service, shake-down and immediate transfer to Portugal. Same will happen with the Van Galen 11 monthes later.

-Cost:
the amount of money spent on 2 modern frigates like the KD (240 million Euro) would be more or less the same necessary to reactive both Perrys (US would sell them both by 80 million Euro, but then and aditional 160 million euro would have to be spent reactivating both)

Compability with current MEKO 200 Portuguese frigates (Vasco da Gama class):
Many of the sistems in terms of sensors , radars, and armament are similar, making it easier for cinergy.
Diference in armament is the CIWS (goakeeper in KD vs. Phalanx in VdG) and the gun (76mm in KD vs. creusot-loire 100mm in VdG), but Portuguese Navy personnel already trained for the 76mm (similar gun in the Perrys)

Maintenance/Repairs/Upgrades:
Belgium also bought 2 frigates of this type , Netherlands still has 2 (the remainder 2 were sold to Chile). Portugal, Belgium and the netherlands signed a joint agreement in terms of maintenace and upgrades.
If Portugal had gonne for the Perrys would be dependent of Spain (always a "tricky relationship") , sole european user of Perry frigates (Class F-80, Santa Maria)
Also the aomunt of spares for the OHPs is decrasing has the ships are being decommisioned from the USN, maintenance of the Mk-13 SM-1 AAM launcher is getting difficult , since the US Perry's are having their laucher removed.

In general terms the sole advantage for the Perrys would have been that they are dedicated more to AAW , and the KDs are multi-purpose warships, but the SM-1 sistem is becoming obsolete and most likely there would be no funds for an eventual upgrade.

Eventually the KDs can be upgraded to ESSM.

Also the investment in a plantform with 25 years might not be so justifiable has in 1 plantform with 10 years less.

Still to know is wherether the Portuguese Navy will acquire any additional helis (Lynx?) for the 2 KDs

Ideal would be at least 8 units (but we only have 5)

VdG can carry 2 Helis, but the KDs can only carry one (they were designed originally for the NH-90)

vader4902

Oh, I forgot to mention:
The original plan would be for Portugal to have 2 AAW escorts for the so-long-waited LPD , hence the original idea of the Perrys(although at the time the Navy was considering the Dutch AAW Jacob Van Hermeskerk twins, sold meanwhile to Chile):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacob_v..._class_frigate

Because the LPD construction is being delayed (talks are now that perhaps it will be finished in 2014...), there was no more "urgent" need for AAW escorts and would mean that when the LPD joined the fleet, the 2 Perrys would be more than 30 years old...

For easier comparison:

KAREL DOORMAN CLASS
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karel_D..._class_frigate

VASCO DA GAMA CLASS

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vasco_d..._class_frigate


OLIVER HAZARD PERRY CLASS
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oliver_..._class_frigate

JBodnar39

Thanks for the info - those are a lot of good reasons

vader4902

The 2 remaining João Belo Frigates will go to Uruguay in September 2007


The 2 João Belo will be replaced by the Karel Doormans

NRP COMANDANTE JOÃO BELO

vader4902

This afternoon the signing of the agreement for the Transfer of the Frigates "João Belo" and "Sacadura Cabral" to Uruguay will take place at the Lisbon's Naval Base, between the MoDs of both countries.

the President of Uruguay is on a official visit to Portugal and will visit the ships that are being prepared for the Uruguayian Navy

vader4902

HrMs Van Nes of the Dutch Navy has been officially put out of "active service" within the RNLN and will start her maintenance periode prior to transfer for the Portuguese Navy next December 1st 2008

She will be renamed "Bartolomeu Dias", in tribute to the Portuguese Discoverer of the Cape of Good Hope

Sea Toby

I was interested in which amphibious ship Portugal was going to buy, but I see its been delayed. I do think New Zealand's answer of a multi-role vessel was innovated, using a converted small ferry design.

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vader4902

The Portuguese Government has announced yesterday the purchase of the Frigates "Cte João Belo" and "Cte Sacadura Cabral" by Uruguay.

Both ships will sail from Lisbon beggining of April already under the Flag of Uruguay.

The cost of both units was 13 M€.

Sea Toby

Of the videos that have been produced, this one I like the best of the new Juan Carlos I BPE. Nothing like the feeling of a ship entering her domain, the sea, for the first time.

YouTube - BPE

gimini

I think protégés should use multi rule fighter for they nave so it help them to maintain a small fleet of vessels instead of maintain a large number of varies ships