Top 5 Navys In The World - Page 6

**TopHatter** · 07-17-2005, 19:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M21Sniper

Spanish navy has better fleet AAW protection.

Yeah, AEGIS will do that for you

Dreadnought · 07-18-2005, 11:51 AM

Im thinking the navy's list is a moot point. It only takes one smart Captain to change the course of events dramaticaly fast. And then we all lose not as navy's but as human beings

Cowboykiller · 07-24-2005, 01:30 AM

PLEASE DO NOT ADD INDIA TO THAT LIST!

Is it me, or do all these Indian posters in here seem way to cocky about their military when they've never even partipated in any real meaningful conflict OR PRODUCE original military equipment?

ajaybhutani · 07-24-2005, 02:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cowboykiller

PLEASE DO NOT ADD INDIA TO THAT LIST!

Is it me, or do all these Indian posters in here seem way to cocky about their military when they've never even partipated in any real meaningful conflict OR PRODUCE original military equipment?

again shows ur ignorance....

giggs88 · 07-24-2005, 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by killer

Putting UK after India is because inspite of having good ships, they operate mostly in europe and atlantic.

Where the **** do India operate then? Atlantic?

RepublicanGuard · 09-26-2005, 00:14 AM

Orca, remember this about the russian navy: It is almost purely a submarine force and has been for years.

Since 91, the russians have shed the "Extra" weight of the soviet union off of it due to changes in strategic intent and financial matters.

Most of the subs you see laid up are of the obsolete types. New russian naval doctrine revolves around the attack submarines such as the kilo and the akula classes.

and btw, never compare russia to france ever again

Sameer · 09-26-2005, 10:07 AM

Here is a less biased list in terms of current capabilities

US
Russia
UK
France
PLAAN (some nuke subs and a bigger fleet than the IN)
Indian Navy

Sameer · 09-26-2005, 13:34 PM

I am a bit hesitant to claim who is superior the French or the Brits?

Any thoughts.

tphuang · 09-26-2005, 21:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by killer

this list is OK. but I will prefer to put like this.

1 USA
2 Russia
3 india
4 UK.
5 Toss between spain and france.

Putting UK after India is because inspite of having good ships, they operate mostly in europe and atlantic. without US support they will not stand a chance.

same with spain and france. USA and Russia can operate inepenently around the world. then comes India which can operate independently from gulf to far east

can't agree with that at all. UK still has one of the best trained navies out there. Having a couple of air craft carriers with no supporting fleet does not give you a great navy. Although, the new Scorpene subs do help.

tphuang · 09-26-2005, 21:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sameer

Here is a less biased list in terms of current capabilities

(some nuke subs and a bigger fleet than the IN)

more advanced too.

dabrownguy · 10-06-2005, 17:45 PM

I beg to differ on the advance part.
InN is completely different from the shore protecting PLAN. Look at their capabilities. InN has a defencive and offensive advantage. And before you bring in the 052C, let me remind you it's no in service yet! 054 just got commisioned so don't hold your breathe expecially since we know NOTHING about the dystroyer the Chinese so ultimatly brag about. There are few naval experts here who will dystroy any fantasy of 052C being the "RED AEGIS" IMO. So don't start.
On the next topic why is it that the Kashin II Class or otherwise known as Rajput Class have only 4 Brahmos whilw keeping 2 Styx? Are they awaiting more to be produced or is 4 the finall plan?

tphuang · 10-06-2005, 22:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dabrownguy

I beg to differ on the advance part.
InN is completely different from the shore protecting PLAN. Look at their capabilities. InN has a defencive and offensive advantage. And before you bring in the 052C, let me remind you it's no in service yet! 054 just got commisioned so don't hold your breathe expecially since we know NOTHING about the dystroyer the Chinese so ultimatly brag about. There are few naval experts here who will dystroy any fantasy of 052C being the "RED AEGIS" IMO. So don't start.
On the next topic why is it that the Kashin II Class or otherwise known as Rajput Class have only 4 Brahmos whilw keeping 2 Styx? Are they awaiting more to be produced or is 4 the finall plan?

052B and Delhi are probably in the same class. 054 and Talwar are probably in the same class.

As for 054, it uses HQ-7 (upgraded Thales Crotale) for air defense (not great), 8 YJ-83 launchers for ASM, Ka-28 for ASW and also YU-7 torpedoes (basically mk-46 mod 1) and is supposed to be sharing some traits of Lafayette class in terms of stealthiness. You can check pictures online to verify this, since they are open online now.

052C will be inducted soon and 051C will be inducted in the next year or 2 I guess. Both are considered to have much more advanced air defense than anything India has to offer. No where near the latest Burke, but still can be considered dedicated air defense DDGs. The question right now is whether or not 052C is equipped with the APAR radars bought from kvant in 2004. The current buzz is that 054A has started construction in Shanghai and will use YJ-62 and HQ-16 (which is supposed to be super "Tor-M1"). The Catamarcan FAC class is also considered to be quite advanced.

dabrownguy · 10-07-2005, 03:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tphuang

052B and Delhi are probably in the same class. 054 and Talwar are probably in the same class.

As for 054, it uses HQ-7 (upgraded Thales Crotale) for air defense (not great), 8 YJ-83 launchers for ASM, Ka-28 for ASW and also YU-7 torpedoes (basically mk-46 mod 1) and is supposed to be sharing some traits of Lafayette class in terms of stealthiness. You can check pictures online to verify this, since they are open online now.

052C will be inducted soon and 051C will be inducted in the next year or 2 I guess. Both are considered to have much more advanced air defense than anything India has to offer. No where near the latest Burke, but still can be considered dedicated air defense DDGs. The question right now is whether or not 052C is equipped with the APAR radars bought from kvant in 2004. The current buzz is that 054A has started construction in Shanghai and will use YJ-62 and HQ-16 (which is supposed to be super "Tor-M1"). The Catamarcan FAC class is also considered to be quite advanced.

You bring good news for your self. But what is your point? The so called Cartarman design is actually not worth it on open seas. I've talked to naval experts, and it seems it'll play close to the shores or in rivers. Hell no will that new design last even with its stealth which is actually copied off the Aussies and I think they are not to pleased with China. Which bring me to say that stealth is not the outmost importance. You can not hide a 2000 ton dystroyer. It'll make a little difference but not enough. Which also brings me to the point about the weapons 054 and 052C will use. I'll wait and see instead of listening to Chinese rumours.

Enzo Ferrari · 10-07-2005, 05:40 AM

IMHO:

1. US

2. Russia(deadly naval aviation and SSN/SSK)
3. France (One of three navies with nuclear carrier)
4. Japan (Great surface fleet with excellent SSKs)
4. UK (Decent naval aviation and that may be changed with next carriers...)

However, I think the rise of PLAN, India and even S.Korea should not overlooked and the next naval crisis would be in Pacific Ocean...

p.s. I should mentioned the Japanese JMSDF lack of carrier not by their ability but because of existence of US umbrella...

Acer · 10-07-2005, 09:33 AM

1. US
2. UK
3. ---
4. Russia/China (Russia may have more/better ships, note the may, but they are in poorer states of condition)
5. Japan

Enzo: UK has carriers, not counting its other ships... in my opinion, in an all out naval war between France and England, England would win...

but, while that point is arguable, I'm pretty sure the UK fleet can defeat the Japanese fleet...

I mean, their noncarrier ships should be, at the very least, an even match (I would think UK would win... but hey), and add in the UK carriers...

I dont understand what you mean by the US umbrella as in US planes covering, or treaties limiting the Japanese navy... but it still doesnt change the fact that they dont have a carrier...

10-06-2005, 17:45 PM	#86 (permalink)
dabrownguy Patron Join Date: 06-24-04 Posts: 189	I beg to differ on the advance part. InN is completely different from the shore protecting PLAN. Look at their capabilities. InN has a defencive and offensive advantage. And before you bring in the 052C, let me remind you it's no in service yet! 054 just got commisioned so don't hold your breathe expecially since we know NOTHING about the dystroyer the Chinese so ultimatly brag about. There are few naval experts here who will dystroy any fantasy of 052C being the "RED AEGIS" IMO. So don't start. On the next topic why is it that the Kashin II Class or otherwise known as Rajput Class have only 4 Brahmos whilw keeping 2 Styx? Are they awaiting more to be produced or is 4 the finall plan? __________________ http://www.indiandefenceforum.com/index.php Indian defence Forum!

10-07-2005, 09:33 AM	#90 (permalink)
Acer New Member Join Date: 10-07-05 Posts: 9	1. US 2. UK 3. --- 4. Russia/China (Russia may have more/better ships, note the may, but they are in poorer states of condition) 5. Japan Enzo: UK has carriers, not counting its other ships... in my opinion, in an all out naval war between France and England, England would win... but, while that point is arguable, I'm pretty sure the UK fleet can defeat the Japanese fleet... I mean, their noncarrier ships should be, at the very least, an even match (I would think UK would win... but hey), and add in the UK carriers... I dont understand what you mean by the US umbrella as in US planes covering, or treaties limiting the Japanese navy... but it still doesnt change the fact that they dont have a carrier... __________________ http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...Background.jpg

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07-18-2005, 11:51 AM	#77 (permalink)
Dreadnought *Senior Contributor* Join Date: 05-12-05 Posts: 5,242 Country:	Im thinking the navy's list is a moot point. It only takes one smart Captain to change the course of events dramaticaly fast. And then we all lose not as navy's but as human beings

07-24-2005, 01:30 AM	#78 (permalink)
Cowboykiller Banished Join Date: 05-26-05 Posts: 73	PLEASE DO NOT ADD INDIA TO THAT LIST! Is it me, or do all these Indian posters in here seem way to cocky about their military when they've never even partipated in any real meaningful conflict OR PRODUCE original military equipment?

09-26-2005, 00:14 AM	#81 (permalink)
RepublicanGuard Banished Join Date: 03-04-05 Posts: 73	Orca, remember this about the russian navy: It is almost purely a submarine force and has been for years. Since 91, the russians have shed the "Extra" weight of the soviet union off of it due to changes in strategic intent and financial matters. Most of the subs you see laid up are of the obsolete types. New russian naval doctrine revolves around the attack submarines such as the kilo and the akula classes. and btw, never compare russia to france ever again

09-26-2005, 10:07 AM	#82 (permalink)
Sameer *Senior Contributor* Join Date: 07-12-05 Posts: 2,503	Here is a less biased list in terms of current capabilities US Russia UK France PLAAN (some nuke subs and a bigger fleet than the IN) Indian Navy

09-26-2005, 13:34 PM	#83 (permalink)
Sameer *Senior Contributor* Join Date: 07-12-05 Posts: 2,503	I am a bit hesitant to claim who is superior the French or the Brits? Any thoughts.

10-07-2005, 05:40 AM	#89 (permalink)
Enzo Ferrari Patron Join Date: 04-15-05 Posts: 189	IMHO: 1. US 2. Russia(deadly naval aviation and SSN/SSK) 3. France (One of three navies with nuclear carrier) 4. Japan (Great surface fleet with excellent SSKs) 4. UK (Decent naval aviation and that may be changed with next carriers...) However, I think the rise of PLAN, India and even S.Korea should not overlooked and the next naval crisis would be in Pacific Ocean... p.s. I should mentioned the Japanese JMSDF lack of carrier not by their ability but because of existence of US umbrella...

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