TopHatter

By JOHN J. LUMPKIN
Associated Press Writer

(AP) - The Navy plans to send the retired carrier USS America to the bottom of the Atlantic in explosive tests this spring, an end that is difficult to swallow for some who served on board.

The Navy says the effort, which will cost $22 million, will provide valuable data for the next generation of aircraft carriers, which are now in development. No warship this size or larger has ever been sunk, so there is a dearth of hard information on how well a supercarrier can survive battle damage, said Pat Dolan, a spokeswoman for Naval Sea Systems Command.

The Navy's plan raises mixed emotions in Ed Pelletier, who served on the America as a helicopter crewman when the ship cruised the Mediterranean shortly after its commissioning in 1965.

He said he was "unhappy that a ship with that name is going to meet that fate, but happy she'll be going down still serving the country." Pelletier, of Poughkeepsie, N.Y., is a trustee of an association of veterans who served on the America.

Issues surrounding a vessel bearing the name of its country are often more sensitive than for other ships. In 1939, Adolf Hitler, fearful of a loss of morale among his people should Germany's namesake ship be sunk, ordered the pocket battleship Deutschland renamed for a long-dead Prussian commander.

Since its decommissioning in 1996, the America has been moored with dozens of other inactive warships at a Navy yard in Philadelphia. The Navy's plan is to tow it to sea on April 11 -- possibly stopping at Norfolk -- before heading to the deep ocean, 300 miles off the Atlantic coast, for the tests, Dolan said.

There, in experiments that will last from four to six weeks, the Navy will batter the America with explosives, both underwater and above the surface, watching from afar and through monitoring devices placed on the vessel.

These explosions would presumably simulate attacks by torpedoes, cruise missiles and perhaps a small boat suicide attack like the one that damaged the Norfolk-based destroyer USS Cole in Yemen in 2000.

At the end, explosive scuttling charges placed to flood the ship will be detonated, and the America will begin its descent to the sea floor, more than 6,000 feet below.

The Navy has already removed some materials from the ship that could cause environmental damage after it sinks, Dolan said.

Certain aspects of the tests are classified, and neither America's former crew nor the news media will be allowed to view them in person, Dolan said. The Navy does not want to give away too much information on how a carrier could be sunk, she said.

Why the America? No other retired supercarriers were available on the East Coast when the test was planned, Dolan said. The others -- the Forrestal and the Saratoga -- were designated as potential museums, she said.

In a letter to Pelletier's group, Adm. John Nathman, the Navy's second-in-command, called America's destruction "one vital and final contribution to our national defense."

"Ex-America's legacy will serve as a footprint in the design of future aircraft carriers," he wrote.

Although no larger warship has ever been sunk, bigger civilian vessels have gone down. The largest ship in the world, the supertanker Seawise Giant, was sunk by Iraqi warplanes in the Strait of Hormuz during the Iran-Iraq war in the 1980s. Fully loaded, it displaced more than half a million tons. It was later refloated and renamed.

The America, which is more than 1,000 feet long and displaces about 80,000 tons, exceeds the size of the Japanese World War II battleships Yamato and Musashi, and the carrier Shinano, which all displaced close to 70,000 tons. The Yamato and Musashi fell to American warplanes, the Shinano to a U.S. submarine.

The America was the third carrier of the non-nuclear Kitty Hawk class, and the first to be retired, a victim of post-Cold War budget cuts after 31 years at sea. It launched warplanes during the Vietnam War, the 1986 conflict with Libya, the first Gulf War, and over Bosnia-Herzegovina in the mid-1990s.

Pelletier and other veterans who served on the America said their farewells in a Feb. 25 ceremony at the ship in Philadelphia. Some artifacts have been removed for museums and veterans' groups; in addition, Pelletier's association will place a time capsule on board.

The Navy has several other carriers awaiting their fates. Environmental regulations make breaking warships up for scrap metal largely unprofitable, though some still are dismantled. One smaller World War II carrier, the Oriskany, is scheduled to be sunk as an artificial reef off the coast of Pensacola, Fla., late this year.

Visit this USS America memorial/preservation site. They are none to happy about her fate. http://ussamerica-museumfoundation.org/index.html
On their Gallery section, one member and his son visited USS Intrepid and was able to gain access to off-limits parts of the ship. He made several minor disparaging comments about the state of the ship that visitors don't see and contrasted them with the Navy's instringence in not allowing USS America to made into a museum.
Personally, I thik these were sour grapes, tacky, and in poor taste. I fully respect his group for their efforts to preserve USS America (both as ex-crew and the ship's proud name) but I don't think they are looking at reality.

1. USS America was (if you'll pardon the expression) rode hard for over 30 years and put away wet. Unlike almost all the rest of the supercarriers, she did not undergo SLEP and was retired in extremely poor condition. (USS John F Kennedy ring a bell?). A friend of mine served on her in the early 90s and was quite candid about her condition. He remarked upon "miles of piping just bursting all at once". Some hyperbole in there I am sure, but still....

2. As I mentioned quite some time ago in another post, there is a very sad limit to the number of ships that can be turned into memorials, regardless of their material condition. This small number shrinks considerably when referring to carriers and especially to supercarriers. Here why:

A. Space - Where does a retired 80,000 ton carrier sit? Do you know of many cities that want something that big in their harbors? Sure it's a good tourist draw...or is it? Milwaukee is having a fit about plans to bring heavy cruiser Des Moines to town. Imagine a ship 3 or 4 times as large?

B. Funds - Money money money makes the world go 'round. You need a boatload of greenbacks just to tow your ship to it's new home. Great, now it's here, then what? You are going to need an even bigger boatload of volunteers and even more cash to refurbish the ship for visitors. You'll be staggered at the work just make the hanger deck, flight deck and selected parts of the island shipshape for Mom, Dad and the kiddies to walk around. (See comments about USS Intrepid above). Oh by the way, if you want to draw some decent paying crowds, you had better get on the ball and outfit your carrier with an air wing! Not too many people are going to come see a 4 acre empty parking lot. Guess what that means? You got it! More money! OK, no problem, you've got a dozen aircraft being donated to you. Great, how do they get to your carrier? Fly? Nope. Guess what? More money! Dare I even bother to go into money for yearly upkeep?

I know I probably sound like a real jerk right about now, but I stand by my comments. I've been to one or two ship memorials:

USS Alabama
USS Drum
USS Intrepid
USS Edson
USS Growler
U-505 (ex-Kriegsmarine)

I've seen how immense these ships are. Big deal, right? We've got ex-Navy and they've actually served on these ships, right? Well, imagine having to maintain a ship with a tenth of her normal crew and budget. I'm positive that the ex-Navy guys on this board have already been to some museum ships and they sure as heck don't need me to tell 'em where the bear sits.
I'll step off my soapbox now...

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Anon

Articles like this don't cheer me up much.

Ships like the America should be made into museums. There are a lot of coastal US states that have no Aircraft carrier museums.

They should.

TopHatter

Agreed in principle. But the museum market is getting crowed as hell, especially with Saratoga and others coming onto the ballfield.
My biggest question is the material state of America. The museum website claims that NAVSEA has been vague in their replies to requests on the ships status.
Personally, I am glad that we won't have to see her cut up for razor blades (USS Coral Sea) or left to rot for years like a decomposing corpse (USS Oriskany)

sw55

I use to think that the cutting up of an airliner was a horrible thing, but i have changed my mind. It served it's purpose, and delivered it's cargo and people safely, and it's life is over. It is the best possible end.

And in the same sense, a warship should be sunk as a target, or warfare research. I think it is a noble way for it to end it's life. A museum seems like a slow death, tying up a proud name to just live in the past eventually to deteriorate beyond that level even, and eventually cut up anyway. It served well, kept the peace, won the battle, and didn't lose or was defeated by an enemy's hand. It deserves to be sunk, as a target, by those who respect it. I can not think of a better way to go. It's final moments will be to reasearch the art of naval warfare, and save lives, and then the name will live on in some future fantastic warship.

TopHatter

An airliner is not a ship. People, both passengers and crew, get on the plane at the beginning of the trip and disembark at the destination, all within a matter of hours. An airliner, by and large, is nothing more than a temporary means of transportation.
A ship is far more than a means of transportation. To the men and women who have served on them, they are a home. Like all homes, it can be both loved and despised. Remembered fondly or remembered with a loathing. A ship is something special.

Agreed, as mentioned above. I will say it again: USS America will provide the answer to a question unanswered for over 50 years. "How well does a supercarrier handle heavy antiship weaponry?

Completely disagree. A museum ship is a brand new life for a ship, one of memorial and education. It enables the older generation to have a place of rememberance for their sacrifices and the younger generation to learn about the rich and storied past of their navy.
Furthermore, I quite doubt you will see museum ships cut up now or anytime soon. The only way this will happen is if the Navy reclaims the ship, due to the museum failing (all the more reason to proceed carefully in choosing the ships and locations for said museums) because of lack of funds or failure to to keep the ship in a presentable condition.

Again, agreed. But not for all warships.

Anon

""How well does a supercarrier handle heavy antiship weaponry?"

What 'heavy weaponry' exactly do we possess?

USN AShMs are all quite small compared to Russian equivelants, so i don't know what of value we will learn anyway.

And also, in order to get the EPA cert to perform the SINKEX, they have to take lots of the myriad flammable materials off the ship(things like, oh...10s of thousands of gallons of jet fuel for instance).

My prediction: No amount of bombs or AsHMs will sink America.

It will either have to be scuttled, or sunk with a torpedo(s).

TopHatter

Well, by heavy weaponry, I guess I am referring to Harpoons, 2000-lb bombs, etc.
Yep, not much in the inventory compares to an SS-N-19, no question about that. I wonder if we can purchase a few....
However, one other bit of heavy weaponry I had in mind was one you mentioned. Torpedoes. I mean, Forrestal and Enterprise already kinda/sorta proved what kind of topside damage they could withstand. But what about the mostly likely cause of damage nowadays? It more than likely won't be a Shipwreck or Sunburn (unless the People's Republic decides it's time for a brawl). More than likely, it'll be some rustbucket of a diesel boat with WWII era fish.

Anon

According to all the Dolphins i chat with, a supercarrier would not stand up very well to a Mk48ADCAP or equivelant. Of course that's only their opinion...and submariners aren't biased, right?

As for 2000lb bombs, that big exercise with JDAMs a few months back was against an obsolete phib, and it took 7 2000lb hits or something like that before it went down.

TopHatter

My ex-roommate is also an ex-bubblehead. I'll have to ask him his (unbiased ) opinion.
Still and all, I stand by my previous comment
Personally, I am glad that we won't have to see her cut up for razor blades (USS Coral Sea) or left to rot for years like a decomposing corpse (USS Oriskany)

Anon

Or glisten proudly in the sunlight for all to see like the USS Intrepid...

Well, we have the Jersey here, i can't complain much i guess.

TopHatter

Yeah, but how many part of the ship will look like these pictures?
For that matter, when I was on Intrepid, I recall seeing a Harrier on one of the elevators (lowered) Both the elevator and the Harrier were in absolutely disgraceful condition (in public, no less).

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Anon

Still looks good from a distance.

TopHatter

*sigh* I know, it was just kind of a shock, being my first warship visit (except for U-505).
The caption to those pictures read Note, these pictures do not begin to convey the poor state and trash laying all around.

Oh and it could be worse. How would you like her to resemble THIS America?

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highsea

As I understand it, the "unofficial" USN estimation is that it would take 4 torps of the MK48ADCAP equivalent to sink a supercarrier.

If we had unlimited funds, then every ship we built could eventually be turned into a tourist attraction or casino. But we don't, and I would rather see an honorable end than have her end up as a rusting hulk somewhere like the Russian fleet. Hell, my dad served on the Bushnell during the Korean War, and it eventually met the same fate. It doesn't take anything away from the ship.

I think we'll get some good data, too bad it will all be classified. But the rumors will still fly, and it will be argued for years in the "what would it take to sink a supercarrier" threads...

Bottom line is what we learn will save lives, so I don't mind seeing the America serve one last mission. I do hope they have the decency to rename her before scuttling her though, something like "naval target no. xxx" will do just fine.

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TopHatter

Gawd, I would probably walk buck nekkid down I-75 in exchange for oh say, a complete video and photographic record of the America SINKEX.

As for her name, it will probably be what it is now: ex-America