Chinese Naval Base

TheDesertFox · 05-01-2008, 15:00 PM

Chinese build secret nuclear submarine base - Telegraph

Quote:

Satellite imagery, passed to The Daily Telegraph, shows that a substantial harbour has been built which could house a score of nuclear ballistic missile submarines and a host of aircraft carriers.

* Satellite image of the harbour: click to enlarge

In what will be a significant challenge to US Navy dominance and to countries ringing the South China Sea, one photograph shows China’s latest 094 nuclear submarine at the base just a few hundred miles from its neighbours.

Other images show numerous warships moored to long jettys and a network of underground tunnels at the Sanya base on the southern tip of Hainan island.
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Of even greater concern to the Pentagon are massive tunnel entrances, estimated to be 60ft high, built into hillsides around the base. Sources fear they could lead to caverns capable of hiding up to 20 nuclear submarines from spy satellites.

The US Department of Defence has estimated that China will have five 094 nuclear submarines operational by 2010 with each capable of carrying 12 JL-2 nuclear missiles.

The images were obtained by Janes Intelligence Review after the periodical was given access to imagery from the commercial satellite company DigitalGlobe.

Analysts for the respected military magazine suggest that the base could be used for "expeditionary as well as defensive operations" and would allow the submarines to "break out to launch locations closer to the US".

It would now be "difficult to ignore" that China was building a major naval base where it could house its nuclear forces and increase it "strategic capability considerably further afield".

The development so close to the sea lanes vital to Asian economies "can only cause concern far beyond these straits".

Military analysts believe that China’s substantial build up of its forces is gaining pace put has remained hidden from the world in the build-up to the Olympics.

China has diverted much of its resources from the huge Peoples Liberation Army to the navy, air force and missile development.

An old Russian aircraft carrier, bought by Beijing for "leisure activities" has been picked over by naval architects who hope to "reverse engineer" the ship.

Within the next five to 10 years the Peoples Liberation Navy is expected to build up to six carriers which will also coincide with the Royal Navy’s construction of two major carriers.

The location of the base off Hainan will also give the submarines access to very deep water exceeding 5,000 metres within a few miles, making them even harder to detect.

Britain’s Trident submarines have to remain on the surface when they leave Faslane in north east Scotland and cannot dive to depth until outside the Irish Sea.

While it has been known that China might be developing an underground base at Sanya, the pictures provide the first proof of the base’s existence and the rapid progress made.

Two 950 metre piers and three smaller ones would be enough to accommodate two carrier strike groups or amphibious assault ships.

Christian Le Miere, editor for Jane's Intelligence Review, said the complex underlined Beijing’s plan “to assert tighter control over this region".

"This is a challenge to any hegemonic power, particularly the US which still remains dominant in the region."

So far China has offered no public explanation for its building at Sanya.

I regret bringing this up if it has already been covered, but saw this story and just had to post it. How accurate are the predictions made in the article?

**Officer of Engineers** · 05-01-2008, 15:03 PM

*** sigh ***

Quote:

The US Department of Defence has estimated that China will have five 094 nuclear submarines operational by 2010 with each capable of carrying 12 JL-2 nuclear missiles.

The only way that could happen is those 094s would have to be built by Adobe Photoshop ... Oh, wait...

HistoricalDavid · 05-01-2008, 15:20 PM

Five SSBNs in two years, nice.

Is this almost as crazy?

Quote:

Within the next five to 10 years the Peoples Liberation Navy is expected to build up to six carriers which will also coincide with the Royal Navy’s construction of two major carriers.

**Officer of Engineers** · 05-01-2008, 15:54 PM

David,

Let me get you on something. No hull has been laid yet for either sub or carrier.

fitz · 05-01-2008, 16:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers

David,

Let me get you on something. No hull has been laid yet for either sub or carrier.

Typical anti-Chinese fear-mongering. I've been reading that they are about to get an aircraft carrier or a this or a that for almost 20 years. And yet...

HistoricalDavid · 05-01-2008, 17:08 PM

Hehe. Stuff like this reminds me how even the Telegraph can be just as tabloidy as the rest (e.g. the time they ran a story about the Paras' 'secret' war in Baghdad...)

How 'secret' are these bases supposed to be? It is my understanding from Mr Slade that the obvious bases out in the open are meant to be open secrets, but the real juicy stuff is buried deep under cities or melded into civilian infrastructure, e.g. secret telephone exchanges and tube lines.

nebula82 · 05-02-2008, 02:09 AM

Yes the media has a gigantic hard-on for China and its military these days & this story is just another example of sensationalistic nonsense with regards to the PLA….

Six carriers in 5-10 years?? Not even the USN has that build capability!

Nebula82.

nebula82 · 05-02-2008, 02:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers

David,

Let me get you on something. No hull has been laid yet for either sub or carrier.

But considering what the Chinese are doing to the Varyag, & what they did to the decommissioned Australian carrier back in the 1980s when they bought it off them, I wouldn’t be surprised if preparations to build their own indigenous carrier and carrier group would start from say 2010 or 2012 onwards.

What say you OoE?

Nebula82.

**Officer of Engineers** · 05-02-2008, 03:19 AM

There is one extremely serious item still missing from the VARYAG - engines. The Chinese don't know how to build boiler plants necessary to sustain a carrier in flight operations. They've tried to buy two from Georgia but the deal fell through.

The only other option, which the Chinese are more than capable, is a nuclear power plant but we have not seen anything glowing green from space.

We actually don't know what the Chinese are doing concerning the powerplant issue but we have absolutely no evidence that they've solved it.

Silent Hunter · 05-02-2008, 12:01 PM

How ready are any 094s?

-{SpoonmaN}- · 05-03-2008, 01:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers

There is one extremely serious item still missing from the VARYAG - engines. The Chinese don't know how to build boiler plants necessary to sustain a carrier in flight operations. They've tried to buy two from Georgia but the deal fell through.

The only other option, which the Chinese are more than capable, is a nuclear power plant but we have not seen anything glowing green from space.

We actually don't know what the Chinese are doing concerning the powerplant issue but we have absolutely no evidence that they've solved it.

Sir, in your opinion, how long would you estimate that it will take for the PLA to be broadly capable of posing a serious challenge to the US Military in East Asia? I roughly guess at least 20 years given the top-down shortcomings that I've read about here, would that be a reasonable "guesstimate"?

**Officer of Engineers** · 05-03-2008, 01:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silent Hunter

How ready are any 094s?

We can confirm one on trials right now.

Quote:

Originally Posted by -{SpoonmaN}-

Sir, in your opinion, how long would you estimate that it will take for the PLA to be broadly capable of posing a serious challenge to the US Military in East Asia? I roughly guess at least 20 years given the top-down shortcomings that I've read about here, would that be a reasonable "guesstimate"?

They are a challenge now but the question is at what? The Chinese could make any US-South Korean invasion of North Korea impossible.

ravi12 · 05-03-2008, 01:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by -{SpoonmaN}-

Sir, in your opinion, how long would you estimate that it will take for the PLA to be broadly capable of posing a serious challenge to the US Military in East Asia? I roughly guess at least 20 years given the top-down shortcomings that I've read about here, would that be a reasonable "guesstimate"?

I would give a minimum of 30-40 years before it comes to the level of posing a serious challenge.
In subs, they are still not on par with russia and in carriers,
For one, as OOE states, no carrier is being built. It takes 6-7 years to build, 3-4 to sort of differences and 10 to develop meaningful protocols. For incorporating those lessons and then learning, what works and what doesnt to build say 3-4 carriers will take that much time.

and another thing people forget is, so what if they have carriers - where are their planes? and what is their present level of planes.

**Officer of Engineers** · 05-03-2008, 01:41 AM

Forget the carriers, the Chinese went the Soviet route. Aerial refueling of naval strike packages. Easier and cheaper than carriers for a naval air arm strike package.

The Soviets certainly did not have carriers to challenge the US carrier force.

ravi12 · 05-03-2008, 01:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers

The Chinese could make any US-South Korean invasion of North Korea impossible.

Could you explain more on this.

Quote:

Forget the carriers, the Chinese went the Soviet route. Aerial refueling of naval strike packages. Easier and cheaper than carriers for a naval air arm strike package.

The Soviets certainly did not have carriers to challenge the US carrier force.

which was what made the soviet the weaker hand in cuban missile crisis and so developed their mini versions of carriers. The soviets were practically ready to leave ocean dominance to US and stop only using the subs.

I guess the soviets could have competed with US in europe, but americas or probably tips of africa were no-gos for their armies.

Aerial refueling means they cant challenge nato in open oceans and basically patrol their coast.

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05-01-2008, 15:54 PM	#4 (permalink)
Officer of Engineers Moderator Scotch taster Join Date: 08-06-03 Posts: 14,876 Country:	David, Let me get you on something. No hull has been laid yet for either sub or carrier.

05-01-2008, 17:08 PM	#6 (permalink)
HistoricalDavid Distant Deeps or Skies *Senior Contributor* Join Date: 07-19-05 Location: North London, UK Posts: 1,916 Country:	Hehe. Stuff like this reminds me how even the Telegraph can be just as tabloidy as the rest (e.g. the time they ran a story about the Paras' 'secret' war in Baghdad...) How 'secret' are these bases supposed to be? It is my understanding from Mr Slade that the obvious bases out in the open are meant to be open secrets, but the real juicy stuff is buried deep under cities or melded into civilian infrastructure, e.g. secret telephone exchanges and tube lines.

05-02-2008, 02:09 AM	#7 (permalink)
nebula82 Regular Join Date: 03-12-08 Location: Hong Kong Posts: 73 Country:	Yes the media has a gigantic hard-on for China and its military these days & this story is just another example of sensationalistic nonsense with regards to the PLA…. Six carriers in 5-10 years?? Not even the USN has that build capability! Nebula82.

05-02-2008, 03:19 AM	#9 (permalink)
Officer of Engineers Moderator Scotch taster Join Date: 08-06-03 Posts: 14,876 Country:	There is one extremely serious item still missing from the VARYAG - engines. The Chinese don't know how to build boiler plants necessary to sustain a carrier in flight operations. They've tried to buy two from Georgia but the deal fell through. The only other option, which the Chinese are more than capable, is a nuclear power plant but we have not seen anything glowing green from space. We actually don't know what the Chinese are doing concerning the powerplant issue but we have absolutely no evidence that they've solved it.

05-02-2008, 12:01 PM	#10 (permalink)
Silent Hunter Contributor Join Date: 08-09-07 Location: London, UK Posts: 471 Country:	How ready are any 094s?

05-03-2008, 01:41 AM	#14 (permalink)
Officer of Engineers Moderator Scotch taster Join Date: 08-06-03 Posts: 14,876 Country:	Forget the carriers, the Chinese went the Soviet route. Aerial refueling of naval strike packages. Easier and cheaper than carriers for a naval air arm strike package. The Soviets certainly did not have carriers to challenge the US carrier force.

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