Sea Toby

Every nation that buys old and new equipment from the United States have the same problems with the strings attached. The US puts the strings on, or they won't sell. Its really very simple, the US does not want to encourage wars everywhere, certainly not aggressors. They sell equipment for defensive purposes. Half the countries, if not more, have the same strings attached with US equipment.

Once the ship is in India's hands, you will love this ship and use this ship within a year in a humanitarian mission whether for India or with a UN operation elsewhere. And even if you do use it for offensive operations, this ship's life will be very short. About the only thing the US does is cut the spare parts flow. Spares can be made internally. For example Pakistan developed nuclear weapons and saw their F-16 deal cancelled. Less than a decade later Pakistan had better F-16s delivered. America's government seems to have a short memory.

I am sure if you read the fine print in this deal, spares are included from US stocks. There is a little price for this, the few strings attached to the buy. Half the world have bought from US, only Indians have thin skins.

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Adux

Sea Toby,

Unlike most other US allies, and unlike China. For India, Options are available. Wether its the French, italians, Koreans, English, Russians or Americans. America will just loose their orders, we dont like your 'fine print' methodologies. We as nation is a pacifist one, and have never been the aggressors unless for just cause. But we will not take dictates from the US or any other. heck even the Soviet Union tried and failed. When 1947 happened we decided enough of Outside powers, we have done that for 60 years and will continue to do so. Just like USA doesnt like Dictates from others, neither do we.

As days pass by, I feel we cannot be allies since we are exactly the same in our thinking, system etc!!!!!

Ray

No objections if the US disarms the Indian Navy.

It will only add a greater burden to the USA!

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"Some have learnt many Tricks of sly Evasion, Instead of Truth they use Equivocation, And eke it out with mental Reservation, Which is to good Men an Abomination."

I don't have to attend every argument I'm invited to.

HAKUNA MATATA

Sardaukar

CPM's statement on the INS Jalashwa purchase

Not that I usually post what the CPI(M) thinks about defence deals, I'm unequivocally with them on this one. Here's their statement from yesterday about the CAG's condemnation of the INS Jalashwa warship purchase:

The Polit Bureau of the Communist Party of India (Marxist) has issued the following statement:

On Purchase of USS Trenton

The Comptroller and Auditor General's report on the purchase of the US naval ship the USS Trenton, (now named as INS Jalashwa) is a damning indictment which puts into question why the ship was bought at all. The CAG report has raised various disturbing issues:

(a) Why was the ship of 1971 vintage bought when the US Navy itself had concluded in 2003 that the ship was not suitable for modernisation and should be decommissioned in 2006. (b) Why was the $50 million deal finalised after only a visual inspection. (c) Why were "restrictions on offensive deployment" accepted and permission given to the US to "conduct an inspection and inventory of all articles transferred under the end-use monitoring clause". (d) In the light of six Indian sailors dying abroad this ship due to a gas leak, were the authorities not aware that ships of this class had suffered similar problems in the past and three US sailors had lost their lives?

The country would like to know why the government is going in for such defence deals with the United States? Is it due to the pressure of the Bush administration to buy US arms and defence equipment?

The government should order an enquiry and come out with a statement in parliament. It should assure the country that such dubious defence purchases will not be resorted to in the future.
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LiveFist: CPM's statement on the INS Jalashwa purchase

Adux

[quote=Sardaukar;471565]CPM's statement on the INS Jalashwa purchase

Not that I usually post what the CPI(M) thinks about defence deals, I'm unequivocally with them on this one. Here's their statement from yesterday about the CAG's condemnation of the INS Jalashwa warship purchase:

The Polit Bureau of the Communist Party of India (Marxist) has issued the following statement:

On Purchase of USS Trenton

The Comptroller and Auditor General's report on the purchase of the US naval ship the USS Trenton, (now named as INS Jalashwa) is a damning indictment which puts into question why the ship was bought at all. The CAG report has raised various disturbing issues:

Why did we buy the Viraat or Gorshkov? The Ship was bought for learning about amphibious warfare and develop capabilities. What do we intend to do for another Tsunami?


50 million Dollars, read again. I would take a working ship for that money without visual insepection.



Not True, but anyways we got it transffered under the guise of Humanitarian needs,


How many MiG-21 pilots have died because of faulty Russian parts?
Accidents do happen, Ask why the Indian Navy didnt have safety equipments and gas masks!!! Idiots.

Oh, the evil satan USA, and Indians completely incapable of making decisions. Americans want us to buy vintage stuff for 50 million...lol, Dont these numbnuts know we are the world largest defence importers running into billions.

Care to tell me why 'you' good sirs didnt say anything about Chinese border incurssions and tibetian crackdown by the Chinese? Traitors!!

kuku

Because unlike the USN the InN is a navy of a small size, limited capability, and we are a nation that has its own defence development needs, if the Communist party is willing to provide extra funds and then scout the market for a better deal for a second hand ship of the same type, dimensions and capability, i believe we should rename the navy to Indian Peoples Navy.

Because the visual inspection was enough, if the communists think it was not enough, they should come out with the reasons for why a visual inspection is not enough, instead of just waiting for an answer, i am sure the peoples naval engineering department in Kerela or Bengal will have men of tremendous intelligence to help them.
Beause that is the only way the navy could get the ship for the quoted price.

Now if i dig up files i will come out with several incidents involving H2S and deaths engineers and workers in shore based sewage collection and treatment facilities.
Do the communists even bother asking why the accident happened, what is the status of the investigation report into the incident, what steps are being taken to make sure that the families of the people who died in this tragic incident are being looked after.
How will the Bush administration apply pressure?
They have no say in India, they will very soon however if more US defence equipment is purchased, oooo...... so that is what this was about.

Now i am sure without a investigation and judgement, even the supreme court does not call a matter closed, or a man a criminal, oh wait, you are the communists, all you believe is in killing people who protest, no rights for the individual and hate every thing that is sacred to me (including my religion).

ahhh..... feels good after you rant stuff out of your system.

seriously, opposing views is what the parliament is all about, however the whole statement that the Left front came out with is missing the point by so much, its not even in the same universe, i am sure even Lalu Yadav could make a more logical argument against this deal.

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cheers

Adux

I have always found this funny, it is the intellectuals who cry for communism and socialism, but when communism rises to power, it is these very intellectuals who are first put in prison, shot and deprived their freedom of expression, which they so misuse in capitalist and democratic systems.

Funny, isnt it. If India ever becomes Communist it is going to be Arundhati Roy and N.Ram first in the gallows...lol

Sardaukar

As you know communism and socialism are not the same.

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Live and let live.

Adux

Its not, therefore the 'and'.

One's worse, other is even worse.

kuku

Huh!!! fool do you not know the secret capabilities of the Peoples great navy and the dingy boats it has.

Because they are the masters of all things red, the red revolution shall live on, we will not let the red revolution die, the day the red revolution dies will never come, because we will just name the day as a red day or change the date, red revolution is immortal, red revolution is going to live on forever, if you think it will die you are wrong, you are incorrect, you are not right......

(I Mojo Jojo am the secret leader leader of the CPI, i guide them in doing whatever they do, that is to say that they obey what ever i say, they follow only one order that is my order........)

mojo.JPG


"lal salam" ("red salute")

Sardaukar

Care to explain briefly why socialism is so bad? Just briefly, am just curious. I don't want to start a discussion on different political ideologies.

Adux

NO,
Make another thread, and have a keen ear for what Dalem has to say...

Adux

KuKU,

What an apt animal to describe our socialist piglets and commie's

kuku

I wont go into the deep type of debates, just a small glimpse of how the socialist way affected me,

when we moved to Delhi in 1997

there was only one telephone company the "MTNL" controlled by the great socialist government,

i had to fill the application for a new phone line and submit it, this process was a day long process, which only happened during the week days, guess what, mom and dad are working on the week days,

My first surprise was a outright refusal by a clerk to take the application as i was under 18 and not the signatory of that application (i later found out that was just BS)

now once i begged him to accept it as if the phone our family was going to pay the bill for was a divine gift, once that happened i was thrown from one room to another till the rest of the day collecting various signs as if they were autographs of some cricket stars.

That part done had to wait for 2 weeks before anyone came to install the phone, and another 2 weeks after that to get the number and activate the line.

After this i had to miss school and go to the great phone bill collection office to offer the monthly bill to the great god named MTNL, it was almost as if they were doing me a service by accepting money from me, every month one day 2 hour line, later i found people were so afraid of submiting the bills through this line that there was a entire industry of people who submit bills, they had contacts in the office and they just went around the line to submit some 200-300 bills.

And if your phone line went dead for some reason, you were at the mercy of the local MTNL telephone mechanic, if he had a problem with your face, there was nothing you could do about it your phone would have remained dead for as long as he wished for.

Compare that to this, now last year i moved into a new house, called tata indicom telephone service provider, same evening a chap came to my house with the phone set, installed it, took the required papers and thats that, every month i call the collection agent on a Saturday, he comes home and takes the check.

now you might say that is just a phone, however it is much more than that.

Here my last line 4 hours out side the Passport office for a ECNR stamp.

DSC00087.JPG

Sardaukar

So be it. I am not opening a new thread. Like i said i was only curious.