GAU-8

Bravo Sir.

After rereading my post, I wanted to make clear my post was not meant to be disrespectful of the Taffy III engagement. As an airman, I'm no authority on Naval engagements. When reading about Taffy III or watching documentaries about it, I'm amazed at the courage and dash of our Navy.

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When a prang seems inevitable, endeavor to strike the softest, cheapest object in the vicinity, as slowly as possible. --WW II RAF Instructor Pilot

The Chap

HMS Victory wins then? Still, I hope we can agree that Yankee Frigates were far better built, newer and occasionally better gunned. Crap in a fleet action 'tho.

As matter of note: which way does the wind blow accross the pond? How rough may the seas be and at what time of year? How many marines? What variety of shot and number? Loyalty?

The above is as things were. Had we not had to give The French a bloody good spanking, things may well have been other. Damn close run debate over intervention in the US civil war etc.

You are still our most charming, if frustrating colony. Other than India.

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Where's the bloody gin? An army marches on its liver, not its ruddy stomach.

Dreadnought

You know you love us. and the feeling is mutual.

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Fortitude.....The strength to persist...The courage to endure.

Sea Toby

Old Ironsides and the other Fox frigates were designed to be fast, to outrun a ship of the line. If the Constitution met the Victory on the high seas, she would run as she was no match for the Victory.

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jonnm

I've seen this suggested a number of times. The Constitution would have no chance against the Victory. American ships and seamen were no better than the British equivalent. The American frigates never defeated a British frigate without a size advantage of 50% 1540 tons vs 1070 tons. There were only two equal battles the Shannon vs the Chesapeake that lasted 16 minutes AND THE Endymion(actually some what smaller) vs President which resulted in the President being shot up so badly that the ship was scrapped not taken into service. The Endymion stayed in service for 40 more years. In the case of the Chesapeake it had a much bigger( about a third bigger) experienced crew(many from the Constitution) but had not been shaken down yet. In the case of the President it was running from a squadron so it could not stop and engage and concentrated on Emdymion's sails.

THe design difference between British frigates and the heavy American ships was an economic and manning issue. Britain had to cover the worlds trade routes and therefore needed a large navy so 38 gun frigates were more cost effective. Britain with twice the population but had to man twenty times the number of ships. The Americans wanted to raid and create local superiority so a heavy frigate made sense. The American ships were raiders. They cost almost as much as a British third rate but with much less firepower. They were fast in strong winds but not not as manuverable and not particularly fast in light winds. Their sides were no heavier than standard British frigates and could be penetrated by standard 18 pounders. The extra weight for their size went into strenghthening to prevent hogging given their long lengths. Note that the Endymion caught up to the President that was regarded as the best sailer of the US frigates albeit with some damage to its rudder due to a previous grounding. Either way fast meant only knot or so. The design of the President was only copied once by the British. Later heavy frigates for Britain and the rest of the world post 1816 depended on British design developments. The American heavy frigates were fine ships but no better than equivalent British designs and their crews no better than British crews. British trade between 1811 and 1814 increased 40% American trade declined about 70%.

All said it was a good start for a newly established country but the myth that has grown around these ships is grossly exaggerated. It has to be remembered that the British used about 1/10 of their fleet to blockade or sink the US fleet and destroy its commerce. The effect of US privateers was about even with the Canadian and Bermuda privateers on the other side.
Regards