urmomma158

That's agreat idea but if the Us is immune why did you state that. Anyways advanced subs will shred the carriers. Some battleships couldnt hurt either. Also they need good air defenses like MEADS and THAAD. Not to mention JSF's(china has alot of flankers). they need to able to hit critical chinese areas as well such as dams. for example a cruise missile can hit a dam flooding the cities and killing millions. Not to mention SLBM's....china wouldnt dare touch em. Also nato will intervene and help too. Besides nato is armed to the gills and the Us has over 10,000 nukes. I dont think china will try to take taiwan everyone knows they're the worst at projecting power. They cant even get a fraction of their army to taiwan right now. While in contrast the Us and Britain sent over 300,000 troops to iraq in a matter of weeks even when the saudi's and turkish refused to let us stage troops from their soil. At least kuwait helped us.These crappy carriers can find themselves sunk to the bottom of the ocean if they tried. GO SUBS!!!!!!!!!! http://www.teamgod.net

gunnut

Now you're talking geopolitics rather than military might.

US is "fairly" immune to China's pressure, not TOTALLY immune. We still do business with China.

What we're trying to do is balance the region and plug up China, not totally help out one side and crush the other. The US will supply Taiwan with "defensive" weaponry when China's offensive ability is deemed a threat to this balance. Taiwan will get THAAD if there's a threat, not before.

Taiwan will NOT get offensive weapons that can hit deep inside China with precision, like dams and power plants. This upsets the balance.

NATO won't get involved because China pretty much bought them all.

Taiwan won't get too good a defensive suite because that means it'll just go ahead and declare independence. That'll piss off China.

You see the type of game we're trying to play here? We can't just turn our backs on Taiwan but we can't offend China too much either. It's a fine line we walk and have been for the last 20+ years.

-{SpoonmaN}-

It'll get harder and harder as the PLA's capabilities increase. I'm sure in the back of their heads the CCP would have been aware of how difficult it would have been for the PLA to invade Taiwan and subsequently take on the US Military in years gone by, but as the PLA-AF and PLA-N get newer and jazzier equipment and the Navy boosts it's capabilities they might start to feel confident they can win in the limited war scenario, and thus invasion of Taiwan might be a more likely response if the ROC steps out of line.
Still both sides would obviously rather avoid a war, given the staggering costs involved.

urmomma158

This Ac carrier would be easily sunk by cubds that the US could provide. No point really in making it. It has no strategic value. Especially since subs are so stealthy nowadays. I doubt it can survive not only subs but anti ship missiles and anti ship cruise missiles. Not much strategic value really but necessary to boost the PLAN's capabilities.

TopHatter

Eh....it's late...what are "cubds"?

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-{SpoonmaN}-

Yeah like I said, it's going to be a long way off before the PLA can put together a proper blue-water Naval Force, as it's not just a matter of building the carrier (and building just one would be rather stupid) its fielding their Air wings (and right now the PLA has no carrier planes) training pilots and crews, and of course assembling the huge support systems needed to maintain, operate and protect a carrier (And protecting it from the US Military would be no easy task). Right now the Chinese would have to basically do it from scratch, and given their less than illustrious record of developing their own Military technology and tactics, I'd pretty much write off the PLA-N as an Air-Sea Navy for a long, long time.
By the way, how are their Naval Air Defences coming along? Last I knew, they weren't too good.

DF-41

the Chinese characters in the pic generally means "to hold together , to manage scientifically , to work precisely , and to be brave enough to …(considering the custom of the chinese characteristic propagandize , I guess it may be : to be brave enough to innovat)" , or like this approximately .

rickusn

Galrahn has ablog about this also.

Information Dissemination: July 2007

RIA Novosti - World - Chinese Navy to build two carriers with Russian help - agency

Chinese Navy to build two carriers with Russian help - agency
18:36 | 27/ 07/ 2007



HONG KONG, July 27 (RIA Novosti) - Kanwa, a Hong Kong defense news agency, said Friday purchases by China of Russian aircraft carrier components suggested that Beijing was planning to build one or two aircraft carriers, possibly by 2015.

The agency cited a senior source in the Russian Navy, saying that Russia and China have an agreement to purchase four deck landing systems capable of handling heavy deck-based fighters such as the Su-33 Flanker.

Kanwa experts suggested that one landing system would be studied and copied, and another would be installed on the Varyag, a Soviet-made carrier, which was bought incomplete from Ukraine for $20 million in 1998 by a Macao tourist agency.

The agency, Diversoes Chong Lot Limitada, promised to convert the ship into a large "riverboat casino," but disappeared shortly after the Varyag was towed to the Chinese port of Dalian. Regional media have repeatedly suggested China would use the Varyag as a template for its own carriers.

Two other deck landing systems, Kanwa expert Andrei Chang said, will be installed on two new carriers China unconvincingly denies it is going to build. He said the recent purchase of a T10K, an earlier version of the Su-33, from Ukraine, demonstrates that China also plans to build its own deck-based long-range fighter.

Official confirmation of the carrier project was likely to be made after the 2008 Olympic Games in Beijing.

"Until then we will probably not hear anything official on this issue; moreover, Chinese docks are unable to handle such large projects at the moment," he said

The project, he said, could be announced in 2009-2012 and completed in 2013-2017.

Last year, Alexander Denisov, who runs Russia's agency for military-technical cooperation and headed the Russian delegation at the Air Show China 2006 in Zhuhai, said Russia could help China with building an aircraft carrier if they asked for assistance. This March, a senior Chinese official conceded that Beijing was studying the possibility.

gunnut

Do you think this will spur a new round of arms race in Asia? Will Japan and South Korea start to seriously consider their own carriers?

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rickusn

Dunno for sure but IF China does and Russia eventually builds a carrier for the Pacific region IMHO Japan and S. Korea have no choice.

Japan and S. Korea can ill afford to have China and Russia dominate their SLOCs and the USN may well be hard pressed in the future w/o help.

One of the reasons the US is pushing for what nominally amounts to "most favored nation" status with India.

And if either nation builds one sure as the sun rises the other will.

They are at best ambivilant allies in the first place held together by the US and some similar concerns.

Alot of history there much of which is antagonistic.

tphuang

South Korea have the Dokdo class, which is already launched, and can certain be modified to operate F-35s.
And the Japanese have the DDH DDH "13,500 ton" Class
Again, might be modified to operate F-35?

gunnut

Sounds reasonable. Looks like everyone who can afford it is building these multi purpose flattops. Didn't Australia just launch theirs? Spain wants another one, that's bigger than what they already have. Or is that Italy?

ArmchairGeneral

Australia is planning a class of helicopter carriers/amphibious carriers. Spain is planning a amphibious flattop as a complement to their Principe de Asturias. Italy recently launched the Conte di Cavour, a larger companion to the Giuseppe Garibaldi.

I'm not at all surprised at the Chinese development. It's clearly the next step in their development of a blue water navy, too obvious for them to ignore. It'll probably take quite a bit longer than they want, and there will be missteps on the way, but I'm guessing they're pretty determined about this.

I think South Korea's remarkable shipbuilding program is in large part a response to China's ambitions. Don't know if they really want to go beyond what they've already got, though. The Dokdo looks like a pretty capable ship, probably could handle Harriers, or JSF.

As for Japan, a fixed wing carrier would be a pretty big jump, IMO. It would take a significant shock to persuade them to abandon their 'no carriers' navy. And I'm not convinced they would need it. Their ASW and AAW capabilities are superb, and land based fighters can probably help, too. Of course, if China acts too aggressively, who knows? Japan is, after all, completely dependent on the freedom of the seas.

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gunnut

Looks like more potential customers for F-35B in 10 years. Let's hope the program stays on track and we can sell some to our allies to cut down single procurement cost on our end too.

pchatra

India too is planning for 3 aircraft carriers by 2017... 2 indigenous and one Russian (Admiral Gorshkov, to be acquired by 2008)... China may view this as a counter-balancing measure...

India plans three aircraft carriers - Turkish Daily News

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