Cvf - Page 5

Stan · 07-25-2007, 11:40 AM

also does any one else think the french should smarten up Charles De Gaulle. always looks like a rust bucket.

Stan · 07-25-2007, 11:49 AM

ok last post i promise. but it might be that the BBC were showing the french version of the CVF. Found this image showing the french version on the bottom and the british at the top.

PubFather · 07-25-2007, 14:57 PM

No need to go quiet! CVF is finally (nearly) a reality.... Hooray!!!

BBC NEWS | Scotland | MoD confirms £3.8bn carrier order

Still predicting a in-service date of 2014 - which would be really rather remarkable, 2016 + 2018 perhaps more realistic. Also, its quite interesting to note that the ships will solely be built and assembled in the UK - there was lots of speculation that St Nazaire (sic) would be where the modules would be put together.

At least if we have CVF (flawed as it is) then we have a core to build a future fleet around...

(ok, excessive optimism here, but wtf!)

pdf27 · 07-25-2007, 18:03 PM

There is still speculation that the French will build superblock 1 that would otherwise have been built on the Clyde. There is apparently not a lot of confidence that Babcock Rosyth are capable of building it, while Aker St Nazaire should be OK. If done for all 3 carriers there will be economies of scale and it's relatively easy metal-bashing type stuff that is of relatively low value to the UK. The high value, IP heavy stuff like Gas Turbines and ship design is being provided by the UK and bought by the French. Superblock 1 is also pretty small so issues of getting the French to agree to UK yards building superblocks for them don't really come into it.

ArmchairGeneral · 07-25-2007, 18:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dectilion

There was a question asked about a contingency to navalize Eurofighter if JSF failed Browne said their was a contingency, but failed to specify what it was. I gather that there is no genuine back up plan beyond one or two theoretical possibilities.

I don't think a navalized Eurofighter would be a practical idea. It is generally difficult and expensive to navalize a land based fighter. The stresses of carrier operations are so much greater that it takes pretty much a total reworking. If JSF is completely canceled, Britain could go conventional and buy Superhornets, or even Rafales. Which would probably be better in the long run, anyway.

Tin Man · 07-25-2007, 19:32 PM

New carriers for Britain...sorry for being a cynic but I will only be happy when the first steel is cut....

Dectilion · 07-25-2007, 19:35 PM

with that attitude Tin Man, you might as well wait until their in the water, first steel cut is little more of an assurance than hearing the ships are ordered

wabpilot · 07-25-2007, 19:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dectilion

There was a question asked about a contingency to navalize Eurofighter if JSF failed Browne said their was a contingency, but failed to specify what it was. I gather that there is no genuine back up plan beyond one or two theoretical possibilities.

A better contingency is the Rafale M and N. Excellent aircraft already available. Or, there's always the even better F-18E and F.

Tin Man · 07-25-2007, 20:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dectilion

with that attitude Tin Man, you might as well wait until their in the water, first steel cut is little more of an assurance than hearing the ships are ordered

Can`t help it! We ARE talking about the MOD and the UK government

At least if we start building the damn things and order long lead items like propulsion systems it`s actually something tangible.

I still can`t believe we have spent NINE years talking about doing it. Wonder what type of AEW aircraft the Navy prefer? More Helicopters or a Hawkeye or three? I have seen NO mention of AEW aircraft AT ALL....If left to the MOD we will have to resurrect those Fairey Gannet jigs!

pdf27 · 07-26-2007, 04:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TIN MAN

I have seen NO mention of AEW aircraft AT ALL....If left to the MOD we will have to resurrect those Fairey Gannet jigs!

That's because the Sea King ASAC.7s have just had a major radar update and are probably good for another 20 years. Besides, the radar platform selected depends on the variant of the JSF selected, which is still some years into the future.

Dectilion · 07-26-2007, 05:14 AM

bbc has a corrected image

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/image..._carrier_2.gif

Stan · 07-26-2007, 06:03 AM

dam I was hoping that the navy had changed their mind.

Still we they have another 3 years in which they could still do so

VarSity · 07-26-2007, 06:14 AM

Stan, what you got against the ramp design?

Also I like the pikky at this link

Royal Navy

Stan · 07-26-2007, 06:44 AM

What dont I have against the ramp.

By having the ramp design without angled deck and arrestor landing we are limiting ourselves to at this time the f-35b which due to its nature carriers less paylaod and fuel.

We are also by having ramp without catapults not giving ourselves the option or the best awac system available to carriers namely the hawkeye.

yes there will be less stress placed on the aircrafts but they will have compared to their us counterpart a reduced capability.

The US has a wide range of aircraft to get a job done, we dont so we need our planes to be the best available and the f-35b isnt.

VarSity · 07-26-2007, 07:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stan

What dont I have against the ramp.

By having the ramp design without angled deck and arrestor landing we are limiting ourselves to at this time the f-35b which due to its nature carriers less paylaod and fuel.

We are also by having ramp without catapults not giving ourselves the option or the best awac system available to carriers namely the hawkeye.

yes there will be less stress placed on the aircrafts but they will have compared to their us counterpart a reduced capability.

The US has a wide range of aircraft to get a job done, we dont so we need our planes to be the best available and the f-35b isnt.

Fair points

07-25-2007, 11:40 AM	#61 (permalink)
Stan Contributor Join Date: 07-11-06 Posts: 375 Country:	also does any one else think the french should smarten up Charles De Gaulle. always looks like a rust bucket. Last edited by Stan : 07-25-2007 at 11:42 AM.

07-25-2007, 14:57 PM	#63 (permalink)
PubFather *Senior Contributor* Join Date: 04-25-06 Location: Glasgow Posts: 1,198 Country:	No need to go quiet! CVF is finally (nearly) a reality.... Hooray!!! BBC NEWS \| Scotland \| MoD confirms £3.8bn carrier order Still predicting a in-service date of 2014 - which would be really rather remarkable, 2016 + 2018 perhaps more realistic. Also, its quite interesting to note that the ships will solely be built and assembled in the UK - there was lots of speculation that St Nazaire (sic) would be where the modules would be put together. At least if we have CVF (flawed as it is) then we have a core to build a future fleet around... (ok, excessive optimism here, but wtf!) __________________ Nemo Me Impune Lacessit - Scottish Motto "They that approve a private opinion, call it opinion; but they that dislike it, heresy; and yet heresy signifies no more than private opinion” Thomas Hobbes - Leviathan

07-25-2007, 18:03 PM	#64 (permalink)
pdf27 Contributor Join Date: 06-05-06 Location: UK Posts: 538 Country:	There is still speculation that the French will build superblock 1 that would otherwise have been built on the Clyde. There is apparently not a lot of confidence that Babcock Rosyth are capable of building it, while Aker St Nazaire should be OK. If done for all 3 carriers there will be economies of scale and it's relatively easy metal-bashing type stuff that is of relatively low value to the UK. The high value, IP heavy stuff like Gas Turbines and ship design is being provided by the UK and bought by the French. Superblock 1 is also pretty small so issues of getting the French to agree to UK yards building superblocks for them don't really come into it. __________________ Rule 1: Never trust a Frenchman Rule 2: Treat all members of the press as French

07-25-2007, 19:32 PM	#66 (permalink)
Tin Man Contributor Join Date: 06-02-07 Location: In the `shires. Posts: 396 Country:	New carriers for Britain...sorry for being a cynic but I will only be happy when the first steel is cut.... __________________ "Liberty is a thing beyond all price.

07-26-2007, 06:14 AM	#73 (permalink)
VarSity Contributor Join Date: 06-11-07 Location: Leicester Posts: 465 Country:	Stan, what you got against the ramp design? Also I like the pikky at this link Royal Navy Last edited by VarSity : 07-26-2007 at 06:29 AM.

07-25-2007, 11:49 AM	#62 (permalink)
Stan Contributor Join Date: 07-11-06 Posts: 375 Country:	ok last post i promise. but it might be that the BBC were showing the french version of the CVF. Found this image showing the french version on the bottom and the british at the top.

07-25-2007, 19:35 PM	#67 (permalink)
Dectilion Regular Join Date: 01-13-07 Posts: 137	with that attitude Tin Man, you might as well wait until their in the water, first steel cut is little more of an assurance than hearing the ships are ordered

07-26-2007, 05:14 AM	#71 (permalink)
Dectilion Regular Join Date: 01-13-07 Posts: 137	bbc has a corrected image http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/image..._carrier_2.gif

07-26-2007, 06:03 AM	#72 (permalink)
Stan Contributor Join Date: 07-11-06 Posts: 375 Country:	dam I was hoping that the navy had changed their mind. Still we they have another 3 years in which they could still do so

07-26-2007, 06:44 AM	#74 (permalink)
Stan Contributor Join Date: 07-11-06 Posts: 375 Country:	What dont I have against the ramp. By having the ramp design without angled deck and arrestor landing we are limiting ourselves to at this time the f-35b which due to its nature carriers less paylaod and fuel. We are also by having ramp without catapults not giving ourselves the option or the best awac system available to carriers namely the hawkeye. yes there will be less stress placed on the aircrafts but they will have compared to their us counterpart a reduced capability. The US has a wide range of aircraft to get a job done, we dont so we need our planes to be the best available and the f-35b isnt.

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