Unipidity

I only thought about this last night, so its hardly a well thought out post. However; why do submarines / surface combatants dont have 'active' anti-torpedo counter-measures? Could you not produce a very short range (1000 yrds?) small, maneuverable torpedo to intecept inbound torpedos? By analogy to ASMs, that is. A large, long range offensve missile defended against by using a shorter range similar weapon?

Why not? What would the technical difficulties be?

Sandman

I think there are many anti-torpedo active defensive weapons, but possibly classified. Notice all the dead whales on US beaches??
I think the US has some sort of sonic-acustic weapon (like that instrument that breaks up kidney stones in a tub of water by focusing sonic waves at a particular point in the body).
Also there is a lot of unclassified interest in a light torpedo interceptor. Just google it.

SnowLeopard

Pick up one of Polmar's "Ships and Aircraft of the US Navy". Say the 14th edition. That should give you some answers.
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(After realizing that a Skipjack class submarine is arming a Mk 45 nuc torpedo. "He's going nuclear?"--O'neill
"He's never heard anything like our decoys before. He's so scared, he's going to use whatever he can."--Captain Hudson, (w,stte), a time traveling episode, "SeaQuest")

Dreadnought

The U.S. has a few torpedo projects that will soon come to light but I believe they want further testing done before putting them aboard any U.S. submarine. Testing like say their own private sinkex excercises off the Virginia Capes.

Gun Grape

As someone who has had reoccuring Kidney stones, I nominate that as the greatest invention ever.

If you have ever passed a stone, I bet you will agree.

RustyBattleship

Several years ago I had a kidney stone passage. One of the nurses at the hospital wasn't very sympathetic and said, "NOW you know what it's like for a woman to have a baby. The pain is the same."

Unfortunately for her, but fortunate for me, she said it within earshot of my mother who said "Bullsh*t. I have had three babies and three kidney stones and believe me, the kidney stones are much worse."

By the way, the ultrasonic stone pulverization works best on gall stones and is really the only way to get rid of them after they get too big. Otherwise the gall bladder has to be removed.

BACK ON SUBJECT. As I recall from about half a century ago, the Mk-46 torpedo was developed as a small size weapon in HOPES of its tracking system could be developed to also take on incoming torpedos as well as submarines or surface ships. Such a tracking system never was developed for the Mk-46 but I heard that the Mk-50(?) Penguin torpedo could do that and it was air deliverable by helicopter as well as fitting into a Mk-46 tube. I was with some of the design group that had to modify the torpedo magazines on the Perry class Frigates to take Penguins as well as Mk-46 but not directly involved with the weapons section to discuss the features of the torpedo.

That was only side conversations overheard though from people in the weapons section who should know.

Garry

I remember that somebody and me have posted information about Udav anti-torpedo system here. I guess it is used only by surface vessels.

http://www.splav.org/en/arms/udav/index.asp

Sandman

I have had two kidney stones over the last 14 years. I am lucky to still be a pilot,.. Not fun. I suspect if I had said the same response as that bigoted sexist double standard nurse ("NOW you know what it's like for a woman to have a baby. The pain is the same." ) I suspect the feminists would be barbaqueing my balls while filing the discriminatory lawsuit. Don't get me going on feminists. I went to Hillsdale College, very conservative and you can get for free a great news letter 'Imprimis'. I would suggest this particular one;
http://www.hillsdale.edu/imprimis/2006/06/
sign up, it is free, and very well informed...

avon1944

There are a couple of projects going. Several Nimitz Class CVNs have Mk-46 Mod-?? lightweight torpedo. The Mk-54 is being a replacement for the Mk-46 in that role.
(There is mention of it in Janes Book of Ships annual issue for the years in the mid-1990s. Look up USS Nimitz and is list under weapons.)

The University of Pennsylvania in one of their research facilities has developed a torpedo interceptor! At six inches in diameter it can fit into the tubes to launch noise makers to distract incomming torpedos.

Russia has a couple of projects going on this topic. Limited sucess like the Mk-46. Whichever country developes an 'effective' anti-torpedo system, will have a significant advantage over other navies. It will be similar to the USAF and its capabilities when stealth was introduced. It had the ability to attack very important targets with little risk of interception.
An anti-torpedo system means it will more difficult to kill a submarine, carriers and other high priority targets.


Yes, but most don't consider it to be realistic because of the animal rights movement! The US Navy has trouble using it medium and low frequency sonars currently because of what the sound waves do to the creatures that live in the oceans.

Adrian

Dreadnought

Ive head various myths about torpedo defence during the vietnam era having to do with underwater ECM. From what I was told this was found to be effective as far as protecting a large warship however once used it was found to be uncontrolable although it did its job rather well. Myth or fact remains to be proven however this underwater disturbance that beaches whales etc may lend credence to this myth.

__________________
Fortitude.....The strength to persist...The courage to endure.

Gregor

Some of the big technical challenges are:

1. Data Fusion - Detection, Classification, Localization (DCL).
2. Salvo on Salvo
3. Acoustic performance (array) of the defensive hard-kill unit in the wake (very noisy).
4. Sizing of the defensive-weapon (array performance, versus weapon size, versus power (propulsion) requirements
5. Fratricide - how do you kill an inbound weapon, potentially in the middle of a battlegroup without putting your forces at risk.
6. Weapon and fire-control backfit on existing platforms.
7. CEP consistency and reliability
8. Many others - this is the surface combatant list. This is and then some for a submarine-launched version.


Do a Search for "anti-torpedo torpedo" and PSU/ARL.

Dreadnought

*One thing to consider when trying to strike another torpedo with say an "underwater missle" at short range is the fact that no torpedo or atleast none that I have heard of is armed when it leaves the tubes or "hot". It must give sufficient clearence for the ship/sub to manuver before it arms otherwise you could have a few billion dollar mistake if it malfunctions and a very large hole in the water that used to be a submarine or warship.

Gregor

It all comes down to DCL - Detection, Classification, Localization. With the DCL technologies we're maturing, and the hard-kill capability, there's no need to arm a weapon in a tube or in "close" proximity to a high value member of a battlegroup.