rickusn

Heres two links that show where the USN and to some extent where "jointness" is headed:

http://www.dtic.mil/ndia/2005expwarfare/mccarthy.pdf

http://www.house.gov/hasc/schedules/...kTestimony.pdf

Actually Work appears to be a little off in that the Sea Base should easily be able to sustain two MEB equivilants if not more. So the drop is more like 5.5 to 5.0.

Even still.

Galrahn

Works number of 3.9 MEBs is right. Actual MEB capability is based on lowest common number, which in the last 2-3 decades has been vehicle space.

2 LHA(R), 7 LHDs, 10 LPD-17s, and 12 LSD-41/49s come to 1.9 MEBs vehicle space.

The Sea Base can only support 1 MEB. Where are you getting the idea the Sea Base can support more than 1 MEB?

The other 1 MEB comes from legacy MPF ships.

Total 3.9 MEBs total.

The recommended level prior to Rumsfeld was 6.0 total MEBs, 3.0 deployable, 2 requirements the Sea Base do not meet.

rickusn

"Where are you getting the idea the Sea Base can support more than 1 MEB?"

From the first link I posted which I paraphrase below:

Employ At least one brigade....

Sustain At least two joint brigades....

Maybe I miss understand?

Another thing that makes me think so is that a MPF(F) squadron was to be six ships now it is twelve.

Again maybe I miss understand the details?

Any clarification you could provide would be greatly appreciated.

Galrahn

There are a lot of problems with the Sea Base idea, starting with...

The Army will require their own ships, which are not programmed.

According to Jonathan Kaskin, Strategic Mobility and Combat Logistics Division Director, Material Readiness and Logistics, Vice Chief of Naval Operations, United States Department of the Navy...

It takes a 1600 TEU container ship and a T-AKE to supply a 5 battalion brigade for 14-15 days, and 1 T-AO to supply a 5 battalion brigade for 2.5 days. For the 30 day requirement of the sea base, it takes 12 T-AOs, 2 1600 TEU cargo ships, and 2 T-AKEs to support 1 MEB for 30 days.

Think about it, it takes 80% of the total oiler force just to support 1 five battalion MEB ashore for 30 days.

More accurately, the Sea Base brings 15 days supply just like the L class echilon does, which means 2 T-AKEs, 2 1600 TEU cargo ships, and 2 T-AKEs could sustain 2 MEBs for the 15 additional days, meaning 30 days total. That is still 80% of the total T-AO force. Those 1600 TEU ships aren't included in the Sea Base 12 ship MPF(F) force, because those MPF(F) ships are programmed for sustaining the first 15 days.

The reason the Sea Base is 12 ships is to meet the requirements to move 2 battalions ashore in 1 nine to ten hour period of darkness, and sustain a five battalion brigade ashore within 36 hours for 15 days.

The Sea Base concept was built on the idea of logistics, but for some reason, the Navy and Marine Corp have turned the idea into insertion, specifically as a way to justify the 360 MV-22s since the unique MV-22 capability is a core requirement of the entire Sea Base concept.

If the Army intends to be apart of the Sea Base, the MPF(F) is going to need a whole lot more than 12 ships, because 12 ships only gets it done for the 1 MEB for 15 days, which niether meets the 30 day requirement nor meets the Army requirements.

Galrahn

BTW, Jonathan Kaskin source is here. I don't usually like using PPT presentations as a source, but online that is about all that is available.

rickusn

I hate PPT too because if your not already up to speed it can be almost totally useless to the layman. Although they do provide a useful starting point for discussion. Concisness is sometimes a good thing.

Thanks for the analysis.

The T-AO factor is something I didnt know about.

BTW I forgot about the two additional leagacy MPF(E) shipas attached.

So please help me get this straight.

Each squadron of MPF(E)(5-6 ships) was(my understanding) what was needed to sustain an MEB for 30 days.

But now it takes fourteen ships? Does the insertion factor drive this? It would appear so. Having 3 MLP and 3 LHD/LHA(R) ships integral to the formation.

Thanks again for the analysis and any clarification.Its much appreciated.

And Thanks for the links!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Galrahn

Ya, it is actually 15 ships, so I'm going to start over and spill all I know.

The Maritime Prepositioning Fleet is 36 ships today.

16 MPF ships
3 MPF squadrons, each with 1 MEB and 30 days supply, based in Diego Garcia, Guam, and the Med designed to get to Europe, the Indian Ocean, or the Western Pacific in ten to fourteen days.

10 ships for the Army
1 Combat Prepositioning Force consisting of 8 large RO/RO ships and 2 container ships with equipment, supplies, ammunition, and fuel associated with an Army “2 x 2” mechanized brigade (i.e., a brigade with two armored and two mechanized infantry battalions), an artillery battalion, an engineer battalion, a combat support battalion, and a theater army logistics package designed to support heavy Army forces until a theater logistics
infrastructure can be developed.

10 Logistics Prepositioning Ships
This force consists of 2 large converted oil tankers that act as offshore fuel farms, 4 large cargo ships designed to carry Air Force supplies and ammunition, 1 large cargo ship that carries Naval ordnance, and 3 additional ships that support the Marine Corp. Additionally there are 2 aviation support ships that carry the MEB aviation squadrons, and the WestPac Express in Okinawa.

There are also 19 ships used for the Navy Surge Sealift Force. 8 are the 1970s era 30 knot fast cargo ships on 96 hour readiness capable of lifting an Army mech division. The other 11 are giant cargo ships capable of lifting over 390,000 square feet of vehicles and cargo at speeds of 24+ knots. For comparison, each ship can carry around 50 C-17 sorties worth of equipment, or roughly 75 percent the size of a new Army brigade-sized UA.

All of todays ships require a deepwater port or anchorage to discharge their cargos.


The current MPF(F) Sea Base concept consists of fourteen ships: two LHARs with Marine expeditionary brigade command-and-control (C2) suites, one LHD with a MEB air combat element C2 suite, three LMSR variants, three T-AKE cargo ship variants, three new Mobile Landing Platforms (MLPs), and two “dense packed” legacy MPF ships. The squadron will be supported by a single high-speed ship, or Rapid Strategic Lift Ship (RSLS), which would deliver nondeployable helicopters to the squadron’s three big-deck amphibious ships.

The way I have seen the loading plan:

1 LHA(R) - 24 MV-22, 4 AH-1Z, Troops
1 LHA(R) - 24 MV-22. 4 AH-1Z, Troops
1 LHD - 20 CH-53, 9 UH-1Y, 10 AH-1Z, 2 LCU, Troops
1 LMSR - 1600 TEU MEB supply 15 days, Troops
1 LMSR - 1600 TEU MEB supply 15 days, Troops
1 LMSR - 1600 TEU Sea Base 30 days supply, Troops
1 T-AKE - 15 days MEB supply, Troops
1 T-AKE - 15 days MEB supply, Troops
1 T-AKE - 30 days CSG/ESG/SAG/LCS supply, Troops
1 MLP - 8 LCAC?, Troops
1 MLP - 8 LCAC?, Troops
1 MLP - 8 LCAC?, Troops
1 MPF(E) - Equipment
1 MPF(E) - Equipment

I cannot be certain about the number of LCACs, I think the number is 8 though because all of the modelling I have seen is based on a requirement of 24 LCACs and 2 LCUs for the 1 battalion by sea at 50nm in 8-10 hours of darkness, and 24 listed again somewhere as a required LCAC logistical number.

The price tag is somewhere around 15.5 billion for all 15 ships, not including any equipment.

So the question becomes, what is gained?

Faster closure times
Selective Offloading

That is all. Same aviation support facilities, same aviation manuever platforms, operates the same distance offshore as current L class ships, meets the same insertion requirements that can be achieved by L class ships, and actually reduces surface assault options with only 1 internal well deck in the entire force, which requires operations to take place only in Sea State 3.

This supports 1 MEB for 30 days.

Currently, with LHDs, LPD-4s, and LSD-41/49s it requires 6 ESGs to achieve 1 MEB. With the LPD-17s replacing the LPD-4s, this will be reduced to 5 ESGs. L class ships with 1 MEB deployed can support 1 MEB for 15 days. To achieve 30 days support from sea, the L class ships would require 6 T-AOs, 1 T-AKE, and a new selective offload 1600 TEU LMSR, which isn't programmed.

Much of this information is available via 2 sources.

The Marine Corp requirements for MEB surface and aviation landing plans and capabilities for L-class ships can be found in:
"Flying Columns in Small Wars: An OMFTS Model," by Major Michael F. Morris, USMC

The Sea Base information can be found in greater detail in Robert Works essay regarding current Sea Base plans included in Chapter 5 of Newport Paper #26

rickusn

Thanks for all the info.

"The squadron will be supported by a single high-speed ship, or Rapid Strategic Lift Ship (RSLS), which would deliver nondeployable helicopters to the squadron’s three big-deck amphibious ships."

I wondered what this ship was all about:

" The squadron will be supported by a single high-speed ship, or Rapid Strategic Lift Ship (RSLS), which would deliver nondeployable helicopters to the squadron’s three big-deck amphibious ships."