Sandman

I know I am quoting myself here, but I just found something that backs up this statement;
http://www.pbase.com/zylen/russian_war_sub
This Sov Sub was made in 1972!!!! WW2 US subs look this advanced!

This site is even more awesome, with lots of more modern warships...

http://s7.photobucket.com/albums/y262/russian-navy01/

fkbello

"look" being the word

gunnut

Do the PLAN Sovremennys have this problem? If so, why do they still want something that's not exactly cost effective to operate?

tphuang

I know one of the new 956 got delayed in delivery, because it caught fire. Other than that, haven't heard anything.

rickusn

"Do the PLAN Sovremennys have this problem? If so, why do they still want something that's not exactly cost effective to operate?'

Dunno for sure. Up-to-date, accurate, reliable info on either fleet is not as forthcoming as we are used to by western standards

But because they are new it will be a few years to see if China experiences the same types of challenges.

China has had maintenance issues in the past. The Kilos bought Russia from come to mind.

Both programs are/were quick solutions to China's own lagging warship programs.

If China provides the appropriate resources there will be no more than the normal issues surrounding keeping a warship combat-ready.

As China becomes more adept at maintaining and building indigenous designs I think the point will quickly become further mute.

However for Russia the lack of adequate funding has been detrimental to both the Kilo SSK and Sovremmennyy DDG programs.

Also remember the USN in the past had issues with steam-plant maintainability resulting in the premature decommissionings of a large number of units. Not to mention an enormous cost to maintain steam-plant ships in general as compared, I understand, to Diesel or GT powered ships..

The ongoing challenges of maintaining the remaiining steam-powered plants just being the most recent example.

But it can be done. The past-due for replacement Austin class LPD's being a good example even w/o a SLEP. And no doupt some LHA's may see serice beyond what is actually considered economically feasible.

I should note also that for Russia the lack of GT infrastructure and funding nearly caused the threat of a total demise of the Udaloy class DD's.

Its always about funding. Always.

Sometimes I think to much is made of what is best rather than what the reality is.

There are no substitutes for the following:

Good Design
Quality Construction
Consistent Upkeep
Realistic Modernization programs

Once again though adequate funding is crucial.

It may seem simple but its quite complex. At least from my rudimentary understanding.

Hope this helps.

gunnut

I didn't know steam power plants require so much upkeep.

Well, you're right, with enough funding we can keep anything running at peak efficiency. Just whether or not it's money well spent is the issue.

Sandman

Yea, spending money on buggy whips is a flawed concept, but then RickUSN has it dead nuts on right, I believe. Exotic doesn't necessarily win over reliable and proven. The hard part is to find that fine line where progress matters, what matters in combat, what works and is reliable, what suprises what you have can handle, and where to spend your money. I would still bet on the USN.

Silent Hunter

Thought I might as well stick it here, since this is a thread on Russian SSBNs.

What condition are the Typhoons in? Any chance of one of them becoming a museum?

rickusn

Three are nominally still operational but there are no missiles for them.

Although if IIRC correctly one of the three units is testing the newest missile.

State of the Russian Navy | Russian Arms, Military Technology, Analysis of Russia's Military Forces

830 TK 17 ARKHANGELSK SSBN Typhoon 15.12.1987 NOR
Typhoon-5. 19.02.1988 entered 18th division (Zapadnaya Litsa) NOR. 08.01-09.11.2002 refit at Sevmash. In July 2002, crew petitioned Main Navy Headquarters to adopt the name Arkhangel'sk (renamed on 18.11.2002). Commander: 2002-2003 V.Volkov. Feb 17, 2004 took part in military excersises with President Putin aboard. 2005: Planned to be refitted to carry a new Bulava missile system.

TK 20 SEVERSTAL' SSBN Typhoon 19.12.1989 NOR
Typhoon-6. 28.02.1990 entered 18th division (Zapadnaya Litsa), NOR. 25.08.1996 successfully launched SLBM; 11.1996 sucessfully launched SLBM from North Pole. 24.07.1999 took part in parade on Navy Day in Severomorsk, NOR. 11-12.1999 - distant march. 2001 renamed to Severstal'. 06.2001-12.2002 repairs at Sevmash. Commander: A.Bogachev (2001). Decommissioned ? To be refitted with new SS-NX-30 Bulava missiles.

834 TK 208 DMITRY DONSKOY SSBN Typhoon 1982 29.12.1981 NOR
Typhoon-1. 09.02.1982 entered 18th division (Zapadnaya Litsa), NOR. 12.1982 transferred from Severodvinsk to Zapadnaya Litsa. 1983-1984 tests D-19 missile complex. Commanders: A.V.Olkhovnikov (1980-1984). 03.12.1986 entered Navy Board of the Winners of the Socialist Competition. 18.01.1987 entered MoD Board of Glory. 20.09.1989 -1991 repairs and refit at Sevmash to project 941U. 1991 refit cancelled. 1996 returned to 941U refit. 2002 renamed to Dmitry Donskoy. 26.06.2002 end of refit. 30.06.2002 start of testings. 26.07.2002 entered sea trials, Reentered fleet, sans missile system; December 2003: sea trials; refitted to carry a new Bulava missile system. new missile system expected to be operational 2005. Oct 9, 2005 successfully launched SS-NX-30 Bulava SLBM from surface. Dec 21, 2005 successfully launched SS-NX-30 Bulava SLBM from submerged position on move. 7.09.2006 launched Bulava missile from submerged position, during 2 stage missile missed target.

Silent Hunter

A question for the Russians here- what is Russian for "Workers' Reply"? I've modified "The Carrier" significantly (it'll be a multi-platform sim) and want to name a Yankee-class SSBN that.

Ophir

'Workers' reply', as in 'the response of our glorious proletariat to imperialist warmongers'? Рабочий ответ ('Rabochiy otvet').

It must be mentioned, though, that this kind of highfalutin ship names fell out of favour some time in the 1930s; In the 60s we tended just to assign numbers to our SSBNs; IIRC there was a Yankee sub called the Leninets (The Leninist).

braindead

And dont forget the ´Komsomolets Shvedsiy´ (Swedish Komsomol) , known in the west as ´Whiskey on the Rocks´ after the 1980 incident of Sov. ´Whiskey´-class sub sitting on the rocks near Swedish naval base .
Semi-official nickname by Sov.Fleet

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Ophir

Yep, that was a great story.

Silent Hunter

Thanks for that, Ophir.

Silent Hunter

How close can Russian boomers get to the US West Coast?