Thread: GEORGIA AN EXAMPLE !!! The BEAR is out of HIBERNATION

Originally Posted by Alex_Ivanov

I visited websites of BBC, CNN and FoxNews daily during the conflict. It was funny - at the very moment Georgians said somethig, it was reported as a fact. 'Russians have taken Gori' anyone? Russian media reported all the same, with one important difference - all those 'facts' were accompanied by 'Georgians say'. It was enough and helped to understand that it maybe fact, maybe not, but Georgians said. Reporting opinions as facts and facts as opinions isn't really what they call 'telling the truth', so I fail to see that western 'free press' is somehow better in this regard than Russian.

What you name "western" is in fact dozens of countries and you (and that one from Minsk) are arguing that the media from dozens of countries are propaganda and yours, from Putin land, are in fact free... yup, the cold war is back.

Responding to the original message: is easy to destroy some undeveloped country in your back yard, Sadam have done the same and where is him now?
There was no need for the Russian army destroy civilian houses and lives, the way it did. No one is trying to invade or destroy Russia. This kind of behavior is to distract the internal oppositions by creating a foreign enemy... is the oldest deception in the book. Why don't the Russian media and public opinion concentrate their attentions on corruption and lack of democratic control of state power?

Originally Posted by WGSA

What you name "western" is in fact dozens of countries and you (and that one from Minsk) are arguing that the media from dozens of countries are propaganda and yours, from Putin land, are in fact free... yup, the cold war is back.

First of all, I try to avoid the word 'popaganda' by all means. I'd call it bias. Here I have to agree with Ray that all media are biased in one way or another. Next, I didn't speak about dozens of countries, I just named three sources, and explained, why in this particular case they look much more biased than russian ones. If you want to argue my view, bring your examples, and drop general phrases.

Originally Posted by zraver

Lets comapre facts, western media when they could get away from thier Russian handles have only been able to verify 44 deaths of civilians in Tsvalli, the town is mostly standing not Stalingrad lite as portrayted. Russia ble wup rail bridges, sank coast guard cutters, has yet to pull back, is openly calling for the annexation of 2 regions of Georgia. Vidoes show Russian troops usin BM-13 Grads in Goergia, Russia has fired SS-21 terror missiles, destroyed police stations, allowed looting, use dslave labor and the list goes on. How much of that is being reported in the Russian press?

Well, I guess you still can't understand that not everything and almost everything the media says in times of confrontation is false, propaganda etc.
Do you really believe all these thoughts and ask me something like "how much of these true facts were reported in your media"? Right?

And please coul you give me a link to the source that ever mentioned annexation of SO and A?!
Who says about allowing looting?! CNN?! haha.

Originally Posted by WGSA

What you name "western" is in fact dozens of countries and you (and that one from Minsk) are arguing that the media from dozens of countries are propaganda and yours, from Putin land, are in fact free... yup, the cold war is back.

And whose media is free?! Perhaps US or UK media? Or German? Are you serious?

Originally Posted by zraver

Lets comapre facts, western media when they could get away from thier Russian handles have only been able to verify 44 deaths of civilians in Tsvalli, the town is mostly standing not Stalingrad lite as portrayted. Russia ble wup rail bridges, sank coast guard cutters, has yet to pull back, is openly calling for the annexation of 2 regions of Georgia. Vidoes show Russian troops usin BM-13 Grads in Goergia, Russia has fired SS-21 terror missiles, destroyed police stations, allowed looting, use dslave labor and the list goes on. How much of that is being reported in the Russian press?

1) The climate of SO is very hot. Survivors buried corpses everywhere where there might. It was shown on our TV (along with inspecton of dozens geargeans troops with blacks (0-o ?!) among them.

2) CNN showed interview with some ossetian doctor from one of several field hospitals. They distorted the meaning of his speech during translation and cutted some parts off: he said that no one can get out of town because of the bombing, so the number is that low. That lay was spread everywhere as a fact

3) All facts you mentioned are discussed in Russian news.

Originally Posted by Alex_Ivanov

First of all, I try to avoid the word 'popaganda' by all means. I'd call it bias. Here I have to agree with Ray that all media are biased in one way or another. Next, I didn't speak about dozens of countries, I just named three sources, and explained, why in this particular case they look much more biased than russian ones. If you want to argue my view, bring your examples, and drop general phrases.

+1
Bring your examples and let's operate confirmed facts by vids or fotos .

Any normal person won't support the killing of civilians. Unlikely we are arguing about it. The difference between us is in information base.

so I fail to see that western 'free press' is somehow better in this regard than Russian.[/QUOTE]

Yes you named tree sources but i believe that "Western" was your word. And i stand by my comment.
If any NATO bomb kills anyone you can easily see manifestations on the street (ex or actual communist party members, the poor bastards fail to realize that Russia is no longer communist). Russian planes destroy dozens of houses and its nothing. If it smells...

Originally Posted by Eugene120

And whose media is free?! Perhaps US or UK media? Or German? Are you serious?

What can i say...
US, UK, Germany are in fact controlled by some president that tend to kill or put in prison those who dare to criticize him

Yes the cold war is Back.

What make me stunned is the fact that Russia and EU/UE have so much to gain by working together, but in stead the mentality of the ex KGB gains preponderance. EU/UE don't posses any threat to Russia, only in the old cold war mentality.

Originally Posted by WGSA

Yes you named tree sources but i believe that "Western" was your word.

Should I call them eastern?

If any NATO bomb kills anyone you can easily see manifestations on the street (ex or actual communist party members, the poor bastards fail to realize that Russia is no longer communist). Russian planes destroy dozens of houses and its nothing. If it smells...

I'm not even going to ask for a proof that any civilian target was purposely hit. 'Everybody knows' is great explanation for any statement.

US, UK, Germany are in fact controlled by some president that tend to kill or put in prison those who dare to criticize him

Yeah, Putin is bloody dictator, 'everybody knows'.

Originally Posted by Alex_Ivanov

First of all, I try to avoid the word 'popaganda' by all means. I'd call it bias. Here I have to agree with Ray that all media are biased in one way or another. Next, I didn't speak about dozens of countries, I just named three sources, and explained, why in this particular case they look much more biased than russian ones. If you want to argue my view, bring your examples, and drop general phrases.

My personal opinion. I dont blame the Russians totally for starting this war but helping provoke it yes. The Russian Government has even stated publicly that the US did not give the Georgian Government the green light to attack. I do believe that the president of Georgia did make a mistake by falling into a war. It did start when 6 or their policemen were killed and they made a very innept attempt to regain their breakawy provinces. While you may not believe me the average american quite frankly does not care if those two provinces stay a part of Georgia or not and I am one of them. It fairly obvious they dont want to be part of the Republic of Georgia and so be it. What concerns me is the Russian Military classless as usual making Georgians clean the streets and humiliating them. It seems to me that through all these years the Russian Military has not learned how to win!!! and do it with honor and class. The Georgian Military is clearly defeated but yet your military and Politicians still feel the need to take prisoners and conficate equipment. Really stupid is conficating 4 US Humvees that had no part in the war and trying to escilate it by bringing a reponse from the US. While tied down in two wars it is assumed by the Russian Commanders that the US is weak and unable to do anything. That may turn around and bite the Russian Bear that managed to destroy a country that had 37,000 total military, I am still laughing over that one. It seems while you have some good point you are way off on some others. I do agree with you that Russia is not totally at fault for starting this war, but it does share some blame. So keep our 4 humvees (what your military will gain off of them I dont know considering we sell them on the market comercially in Russia) but be very carefull of wanting to draw US and NATO into the conflict I see a re-energized Russian military but not a very good one and most certainly a tasteless one.

Originally Posted by BFG

1) The climate of SO is very hot. Survivors buried corpses everywhere where there might. It was shown on our TV (along with inspecton of dozens geargeans troops with blacks (0-o ?!) among them.

got a link to this video? Of the blacks, of the graves, death certificates, funerals, how about pictures showing Tsvalli looking like Stalingrad.

2) CNN showed interview with some ossetian doctor from one of several field hospitals. They distorted the meaning of his speech during translation and cutted some parts off: he said that no one can get out of town because of the bombing, so the number is that low. That lay was spread everywhere as a fact

3) All facts you mentioned are discussed in Russian news.

It was a doctor at Tisvalli's hospital, not a field hospital which by the way would be Russian military.

EXILED ONLINE - MANKIND’S ONLY ALTERNATIVE » War Nerd: South Ossetia, The War of My Dreams - By Gary Brecher

It's so funny to read "banned in Russia" from Moscow =)))

Zraver, i've changed a little my position during our conversation, so I'm waiting for exact numbers of killed. Vids are interviews with refugees, I'l post'em here later (have a lot of work today, no time to translate).

Now the problem is: Georgians now can not control (and some times don't want to) their own territory and protect it from ossetians. If our army leaves - there will be another genocide - of georgeans by ossetians.