Thread: Avatar (might be spoiler inside)

Originally Posted by xinhui

watched the movie last night and it is clear that Cameron incorporated some of the military elements from the Aliens into the current flick, the rifle, the walkers, etc, even the female chopper pilot.

Even Sigourney Weaver, the ultimate Alien slayer... reprised in a role as a peace-maker.

I wonder if most of those outside the U.S. picked up on the Native-American themes. The tribal conditions, the societies, the ceremonies, war-whoops, even the languages sounded right from the plains of 1800's America. Except this time the Indians won.

Avatar only experienced a 3% drop in sales in its 2nd weekend vs. opening weekend, which is remarkable for a blockbuster opening. Normally a blockbuster opening will experience a 30% to 50% drop in sales in the weekend following the opening weekend.

Avatar has made $212 million in 1 week and 2 weekends in the US market.

Originally Posted by Chogy

Except this time the Indians won.

it is a syfy movie after all.

Saw the movie over the weekend and I just want to say from my perspective I think that too much is made of the evil corporation verses the natives plot line.

Fact is there are ample examples throughout history of what happens when a technologically superior culture interacts with the low tech indigenous population and in almost every case it’s not a happy outcome for the locals. If anything, you could say this was a remake of Dances with Wolves or even Little Big Man; only in space with blue indians.

Other than that it was a visual treat with plenty of eye candy. So I say set aside any bias you may have toward tree hugging Hollywood liberals and go see the movie and enjoy it for what it is; an epic cowboy and indian movie, set on another planet.

Originally Posted by TopHatter

Well, maybe. Remember, this is a "company", (the old Cameron standby) with more or less humane stockholders. In addition, that's not the regular army we saw. They're also employing mercenaries, extremely well-armed former-military mercs to be sure, but mercs nonetheless. So that kind of planet-busting weaponry may be somewhat out of the company's reach.

They can move a 10 story skyrise 6 light years but can't move a rock to hit a planet?

Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers

They can move a 10 story skyrise 6 light years but can't move a rock to hit a planet?

Sounds suspiciously like AT&T.

Even though the "corporate greed" theme was expected in this Cameron movie, I was still seething at the individual (for a lack of a better term) meaness of the "soldiers".

I'm still trying to figure out one aspect of the film that wasn't predictable. Overall, an enjoyable film but it's definitely not worth the hype it's generated.

Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers

They can move a 10 story skyrise 6 light years but can't move a rock to hit a planet?

Just because they "can" doesn't mean they "will".

This is of course a corporation and the reason they didn't simply exterminate the Blue Man Group decades earlier was that wouldn't sit very well with their stockholders.

(Even near the end when the corporation's mercenaries toppled the Mother Tree, it was mainly to get the natives to move the hell out of the way. Because it was clear -finally- that there would be no bargains or negotiations, but the point was to forcibly relocate them, not exterminate them. Ditto the "shock and awe" daisy cutter.)

So, in order to move that rock to hit the planet, first you have to get the project approved, because that will most defintely cost money.

Suppose that system is free of large enough asteroids? You'll have to bring one in from elsewhere, which will cost even more money. That kind of capital expediture has to be explained.

And finally, even if through subterfuge you are able to bombard the planet and kill the natives, word of it will get out. It always does.

That's assuming of course that you're able to rig that asteroid to airburst, lest it destroy or otherwise ruin the very minerals you're trying to extract (assuming they're fairly close to the surface, which it looks like they possibly are, judging by the strip-mining seen at other sites), assuming of course the corporation and it's stockholdres have decided that genocide is the only way to go.

Originally Posted by YellowFever

Even though the "corporate greed" theme was expected in this Cameron movie, I was still seething at the individual (for a lack of a better term) meaness of the "soldiers".

I agree. ONE chopper pilot has a conscience. The rest of them, including plenty of women, are up for wholesale slaughter. Not ONE of them is willing to even passively resist.

Whatever Mr. Cameron. Whatever.

Originally Posted by YellowFever

I'm still trying to figure out one aspect of the film that wasn't predictable. Overall, an enjoyable film but it's definitely not worth the hype it's generated.

Ditto on the predictability, but the visual effects are literally unprecedented and worth the price of admission.

The story/script portion....no, not worth the hype. But then, that's not what the hype's been about.

You know, if the "corporation" is as evil as the movie depicts and humans are as greedy as the movie depicts, the sequel can't end well for the natives. I would use orbital bombardment to clear the mining site of all life to make my operation safer and cheaper. But that's just me...

<== my AVATAR

)

Originally Posted by gunnut

You know, if the "corporation" is as evil as the movie depicts and humans are as greedy as the movie depicts, the sequel can't end well for the natives. I would use orbital bombardment to clear the mining site of all life to make my operation safer and cheaper. But that's just me...

<== my AVATAR

)

Interesting phrase in your avatar:

"I have an absolute reverence for men who have a sense of duty, courage, but I’m also a child of the ’60s. There’s a part of me who wants to put a daisy in the end of the gun barrel.

I believe in peace through superior firepower, but on the other hand I abhor the abuse of power and creeping imperialism disguised as patriotism.

Some of these things you can’t raise without being called unpatriotic, but I think it’s very patriotic to question a system that needs to be corralled, or it becomes Rome."
—James Cameron on theme of Avatar

I believe in peace through superior firepower, but on the other hand I abhor the abuse of power and creeping imperialism disguised as patriotism.

Some of these things you can’t raise without being called unpatriotic, but I think it’s very patriotic to question a system that needs to be corralled, or it becomes Rome."

—James Cameron on theme of Avatar

At the risk of de-railing this thread into a political food fight, I hope he sees the irony of his views now that a true imperial president is sitting in the White House.

Originally Posted by TopHatter

I agree. ONE chopper pilot has a conscience. The rest of them, including plenty of women, are up for wholesale slaughter. Not ONE of them is willing to even passively resist.

I am going to take an opposite tac here. In the two big battle seen the first was fairly non-leathal. While a lot more missiles were fired, the body count was fairly low and achieved the objective. The one pilot to object, was the one we knew was interacting with the xeno scientists. The Corporation also had morality- offering science, schools, medicine etc. The problems didn't really start until the company manager ran up against the will of the colonel and the dead line to show a profit.

Even in the final battle scene the objective was to kill the spirit tree to disperse the tribes. The Colonel who wanted war still had to frame his objectives defensively. Those mercs thought/knew they faced a horse bent on their destruction and moved out to deal with a clear threat. The only really evil human is the colonel.

On to the plot, the history of imperialism isn't a pretty one. Humanity is not kind to nature or his fellow man. That part of the plot is totally believable. Also believable is the fact that the company focused on unobtainium is missing the forest for the trees. Imagine the implications of a biologically aware ecosystem and the possibility to mind meld with other living beings. of figuring out how to float mountains. If you could move a million tons or more of bulk material imagine what you could do.

They never did explain the floating mountains, other than that it was a "magnetically disturbed region..." Yeah, which results in billions upon billions of tons of rock to float about magically. I could suspend belief for the Gaia theme. After all, the possibilities of a gigantic network of neurons is something that may well exist, somewhere. But violating the basic laws of physics (like gravity) bothers me.

What keeps anything with mass in the area from shooting upwards? I would think the company would be more interested in the floating mountain phenomenon (possible anti-grav drive?) than a mineral.

Originally Posted by zraver

I am going to take an opposite tac here. In the two big battle seen the first was fairly non-leathal. While a lot more missiles were fired, the body count was fairly low and achieved the objective. The one pilot to object, was the one we knew was interacting with the xeno scientists.

Even in the final battle scene the objective was to kill the spirit tree to disperse the tribes. The Colonel who wanted war still had to frame his objectives defensively. Those mercs thought/knew they faced a horse bent on their destruction and moved out to deal with a clear threat.

Yeah, the more that I think about it, after it was clear that the tribes were gathering and uniting, the mercs were suddenly and painfully aware that the natives were now out for blood, they had a former Marine leading them and now "it's them or us".

Originally Posted by zraver

The only really evil human is the colonel.

Oddly enough and I don't entirely agree with him, but the actor who protrayed Colonel , Stephen Lang (Yep, George Pickett and then Stonewall Jackson in Gettysburg and God's and Generals) doesn't see his character as being "evil"

Originally Posted by zraver

The Corporation also had morality- offering science, schools, medicine etc. The problems didn't really start until the company manager ran up against the will of the colonel and the dead line to show a profit.

I see that as a morality born, first of convenience and then of necessity, but always with profit in mind. Which is of course, as stated earlier, the raison d'être of a corporation.

They initially offered those things so the natives would behave, and also probably as a sort of condescending "white man's burden". They bring in a bunch of xeno-scientists to make it look good and produce some results and everybody's happy.

Later, they knew they couldn't roll in there with gunships blazing because of their stockholder's morality, even after the natives proved hostile to the mining efforts.

Originally Posted by Chogy

They never did explain the floating mountains

Well, obviously Roger Dean is a native of that planet.