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Thread: Building a Tamiya Missouri with Super-detailing

  1. #331
    Senior Contributor Builder 2010's Avatar
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    thanks, I will look into it. You are right; I'm not going to take the cheap way out at this point.

  2. #332
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    An idea: If the model was solidly attached to the base, the cover then solidly attached to the base - so it is one piece. Then a case that holds the whole thing - mabye a study wooden crate would do - with thick foam peices to surround the display case on all six sides. A nice injection molded case would be nice - perhaps the Navy would willing to provide it? - since you will be giving them the model? I could see driving it there in a van yourself too - rather than letting people who don't appreciate what it is - handle it.
    "If your plan is for one year, plant rice. If your plan is for ten years, plant trees.
    If your plan is for one hundred years, educate children."

  3. #333
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    According to Gary, the base and the model should be separate. There's too much chance of the two separating and that would be bad. I'm going to build a foam, form-fitting cradle that holds the ship snugly. I'm going to ship the case and base plate separately. My concerns lie in how to keep the model in place vertically with breaking anything. There aren't too many places on the decks where you can provide vertical downward pressure without breaking something, but there are a few. UPS responded back that they don't do "special handling" because they always handle things marked "fragile" with care. Yeah! Right! Gary Kohs said trust no commercial shipper. The more I think about it the more I want to personally carry it. One of the guys where I'm consulting suggested, rent an SUV, drive to Los Angeles, get the SUV on a boat and sail to Hawaii, and then drive it to the battleship. Sounds like a plan...

  4. #334
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    Congrats on getting the USS Missouri memorial on accepting your fantastic model. Not to rain on your parade, your paint scheme may be in error. If I am wrong please forgive me but your depiction of the Missouri in that time frame should not have the haze gray band on the bow. It should be all navy blue. Here is a statement from navsource:link:http://navsource.org/archives/01/063/016367y.jpg
    The date of this photo is 29 September 1945, as she sailed from Pearl, escorted by the destroyer Kimberly (DD-521), (not shown in this photo). Note that at this time, she has already had her hull painted solid Navy Blue, eliminating the area of Haze Grey on her bow.
    I thought I had seen in an earlier post that you had painted the haze gray stripe on the bow.....again just thought you'd like to know...

  5. #335
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    I'm not picturing the ship as of Navy Day, I depicting it just after the signing on the way back to Pearl.

    According the Floating Drydock Plan Book, the paint was touched up in Pearl and then it made its way to New York in October, "October 1945 brought the MISSOURI to the east coast of the United States for a "Good Will Tour". The ship has had her paint touched up in Pearl Harbor and the NAVY BLUE 5-N on her hull had been extended to the main deck line."

    Since I've chosen the point in time just before this happened, it looks like we're both correct. Besides, I really like how that haze gray part looks...

  6. #336
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    ok....after I posted that I thought you and I might be a few days/week apart on the date of your build.....as my missouri will appear as of September 1,1945...yours a few days later...and you're right that haze gray band does look good....

  7. #337
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    I agree - don't trust a shipper. What would they do if they broke it? - give you a 1000$ ?? what would that be $0.50 and hour - less materials - its like building a custom car - insurance will never repay the true value.

    As far as vehicles - any vehicle you'd be comfortable driving should be fine - renting one that you can leave in Hawaii seems like the best approach to me.
    "If your plan is for one year, plant rice. If your plan is for ten years, plant trees.
    If your plan is for one hundred years, educate children."

  8. #338
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    Mast Trials #5

    Enough of this talk of shipping, I've got a model to finish...

    I thought mast trial #4 was the one that would make it all the way, but then I realized that I forgot to drill the holes for the two additional braces that support the backstay outriggers for the top mast. I attempted to drill this hole after some of the braces were already soldered on and then the nth number carbide drill broke in one of the holes and I couldn't extract it so that one was scrap. Each attempt refined my approach more and more. This last one, I figured a more stable way to support the work as I drilled the holes which helped in the never-ending drill breakage.

    I used a sleeve around the back part of the mast so the two diameters would be the same. Then I clamped the pin vise that was holding the mast into an angle block and then that was clamped into a heavier drill press vise. This held things nice and tight and let me index around to drill the holes for all of the braces all 8 of them. Here's the setup. In this particular view I was drilling the hole for the lower backstay brace which is why the rest is overhanging so much.

    Name:  Mast trial 5 - 01.jpg
Views: 899
Size:  77.4 KB

    The next picture shows the #74 carbide drill I used to drill the holes for the braces. I broke at least 4 of them. This one drilled all of the holes without breaking. It was my 'lucky drill" (I thought). Then, after this picture was taken, it broke. I was able to extract the chunk so the mast survived.

    Name:  Mast trial 5 - 02.jpg
Views: 833
Size:  110.8 KB

    With the hole drilling completed successfully, I returned the mast to the lathe to cut down the enlarged top end. That went okay also. Then it was time to solder the big braces in.

    One try after another and I just couldn't get both piece soldered AND strong. I'd do one side, then wrap it with a wet rag clamped on, and still it would fall out as soon as I got the piece hot enough to fuse. I was never considering soldering all of them in; just the main ones and the platform. I finally gave up and went up for dinner. It hit me that I was doing the whole job with the Tix low-melting-point solder. Perhaps I should solder the first piece in with standard tin-lead solder which melts about 100F higher. So after dinner I decided to give it another go. This is a technique used when building brass models; you start with high melting point alloys and work to lower melting point ones so all the previous work doesn't fall apart.

    So guess what. I used the higher melting point solder to put the 2nd piece on completely expecting the first piece (which is now facing down and not wrapped with anything) to fall out. It DOESN'T! It just stayed there and POOF! both pieces were now soldered. The mast top had enough solder from mast trial #4 that I didn't need to add anything. I just tinned the ends of the mast and braces and directly soldered it on. Remember, before this I had to level the braces with the top of the mast.

    With that complete, I began to fill in the remaining braces. These, after measuring cutting, filing and fitting them, I used CA and accelerator to put them in. The soldering was done. I'm thinking of actually using epoxy to secure the top mast into the hole at the rear of the mast platform for added strength. Incidentally, the idea to drill the holes straight in and bend the end of the brace seems to have worked well. Angular drilling in brass, by hand, with those tiny drills isn't easy.

    Here's the first side of braces in place. I will still do some more clean up before painting this assembly.

    Name:  Mast trial 5 - 03.jpg
Views: 766
Size:  56.8 KB

    And here is the completed assembly. You'll see a little white shaft in the middle. This was just another angle brace that I wanted to install. Needless to say, that little brace took much longer to fit and get to stick than it should. Often the littlest, tiny, nothing details, take soooo much time.

    Name:  Mast trial 5 - 04.jpg
Views: 754
Size:  47.0 KB

    The only thing I don't like is the alignment. The outriggers are pushed up a little and the entire top seems to list to one side. I will see how it looks with the topmast in place. If it's not good we'll go to Mast trial #6 ... ugh!

    I still have to insert the lower backstay brace, cut the bottom of the mast to the correct length, and grind the end to a half-round shape to insert it in the model.

    I haven't decided what to do about the main mast yardarm that carries all the flag halyards and some small antennas. By rights that should be made of brass for the same reason as the mast BUT it is a square section, not round AND is tapered significantly from the center to the ends. This will make for a lot of filing and don't particularly like doing that. I need some moral support here...

  9. #339
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    Quote Originally Posted by Builder 2010 View Post
    Enough of this talk of shipping, I've got a model to finish...

    I thought mast trial #4 was the one that would make it all the way, but then I realized that I forgot to drill the holes for the two additional braces that support the backstay outriggers for the top mast. I attempted to drill this hole after some of the braces were already soldered on and then the nth number carbide drill broke in one of the holes and I couldn't extract it so that one was scrap. Each attempt refined my approach more and more. This last one, I figured a more stable way to support the work as I drilled the holes which helped in the never-ending drill breakage.

    I used a sleeve around the back part of the mast so the two diameters would be the same. Then I clamped the pin vise that was holding the mast into an angle block and then that was clamped into a heavier drill press vise. This held things nice and tight and let me index around to drill the holes for all of the braces — all 8 of them. Here's the setup. In this particular view I was drilling the hole for the lower backstay brace which is why the rest is overhanging so much.

    Name:  Mast trial 5 - 01.jpg
Views: 899
Size:  77.4 KB

    The next picture shows the #74 carbide drill I used to drill the holes for the braces. I broke at least 4 of them. This one drilled all of the holes without breaking. It was my 'lucky drill" (I thought). Then, after this picture was taken, it broke. I was able to extract the chunk so the mast survived.

    Name:  Mast trial 5 - 02.jpg
Views: 833
Size:  110.8 KB

    With the hole drilling completed successfully, I returned the mast to the lathe to cut down the enlarged top end. That went okay also. Then it was time to solder the big braces in.

    One try after another and I just couldn't get both piece soldered AND strong. I'd do one side, then wrap it with a wet rag clamped on, and still it would fall out as soon as I got the piece hot enough to fuse. I was never considering soldering all of them in; just the main ones and the platform. I finally gave up and went up for dinner. It hit me that I was doing the whole job with the Tix low-melting-point solder. Perhaps I should solder the first piece in with standard tin-lead solder which melts about 100F higher. So after dinner I decided to give it another go. This is a technique used when building brass models; you start with high melting point alloys and work to lower melting point ones so all the previous work doesn't fall apart.

    So guess what. I used the higher melting point solder to put the 2nd piece on completely expecting the first piece (which is now facing down and not wrapped with anything) to fall out. It DOESN'T! It just stayed there and POOF! both pieces were now soldered. The mast top had enough solder from mast trial #4 that I didn't need to add anything. I just tinned the ends of the mast and braces and directly soldered it on. Remember, before this I had to level the braces with the top of the mast.

    With that complete, I began to fill in the remaining braces. These, after measuring cutting, filing and fitting them, I used CA and accelerator to put them in. The soldering was done. I'm thinking of actually using epoxy to secure the top mast into the hole at the rear of the mast platform for added strength. Incidentally, the idea to drill the holes straight in and bend the end of the brace seems to have worked well. Angular drilling in brass, by hand, with those tiny drills isn't easy.

    Here's the first side of braces in place. I will still do some more clean up before painting this assembly.

    Name:  Mast trial 5 - 03.jpg
Views: 766
Size:  56.8 KB

    And here is the completed assembly. You'll see a little white shaft in the middle. This was just another angle brace that I wanted to install. Needless to say, that little brace took much longer to fit and get to stick than it should. Often the littlest, tiny, nothing details, take soooo much time.

    Name:  Mast trial 5 - 04.jpg
Views: 754
Size:  47.0 KB

    The only thing I don't like is the alignment. The outriggers are pushed up a little and the entire top seems to list to one side. I will see how it looks with the topmast in place. If it's not good we'll go to Mast trial #6 ... ugh!

    I still have to insert the lower backstay brace, cut the bottom of the mast to the correct length, and grind the end to a half-round shape to insert it in the model.

    I haven't decided what to do about the main mast yardarm that carries all the flag halyards and some small antennas. By rights that should be made of brass — for the same reason as the mast — BUT it is a square section, not round AND is tapered significantly from the center to the ends. This will make for a lot of filing and don't particularly like doing that. I need some moral support here...
    Instead of filing the brass, could you put a coat of some kind of epoxy on it and file or sand that to get the square part?
    "If your plan is for one year, plant rice. If your plan is for ten years, plant trees.
    If your plan is for one hundred years, educate children."

  10. #340
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    That's a good thought. I have to think outside the lines on this one. On the Ship Modelers Forum website, they have builders on there that are better than I am and they do custom mast assemblies. I need to ask them if they'll do a detailed instruction thread on doing it. My biggest problem was drilling those holes in the brass rod. I'm wondering if I had a sensitive drill press if it would have been more effective. The aircraft carriers waiting to be built are going to have a similar challenge.

    I wonder if I started with brass stock that had a square cross-section if it would be better than taking a round rod of turning into a square one? I saw this because I have no square bar stock in my inventory and would have to buy some.

  11. #341
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    Quote Originally Posted by Builder 2010 View Post
    That's a good thought. I have to think outside the lines on this one. On the Ship Modelers Forum website, they have builders on there that are better than I am and they do custom mast assemblies. I need to ask them if they'll do a detailed instruction thread on doing it. My biggest problem was drilling those holes in the brass rod. I'm wondering if I had a sensitive drill press if it would have been more effective. The aircraft carriers waiting to be built are going to have a similar challenge.

    I wonder if I started with brass stock that had a square cross-section if it would be better than taking a round rod of turning into a square one? I saw this because I have no square bar stock in my inventory and would have to buy some.
    I wonder if they make square tube? perhaps it could be slid over round rod - and making holes in the square tube would be easier - wouldn't they?
    "If your plan is for one year, plant rice. If your plan is for ten years, plant trees.
    If your plan is for one hundred years, educate children."

  12. #342
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    they do, but the size of this yard is very thin and long. Here's the prototype:

    Name:  Yardarm detail.jpg
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    The fine details of the footropes and vertical antennas is a photoetched part. If I could make it out of wood, it would be much easier, but if I'm going to do that, I might as well use the kit's plastic part. Brass would be much stiffer which would keep all the antenna wires tensioned for a longer period of time.

  13. #343
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    Another possibility: make it out of wood, but use two halves capturing a piece of piano wire in the middle. This might give the ease of wood to shape and the act as a composite with good strength. Properly filled and sanded wood can substitute for plastic. For that matter, I could make a sandwich with styrene and piano wire. That would work too.

  14. #344
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    I think I'm going to make a couple of test articles at once and see which one works out the best. All will have a steel backbone. I'll do four of them: Styrene, wood, JB Weld, and regular epoxy. I'm not sure how to keep the epoxy in one place on the wire as it cures. I have JB Weld epoxy putty which will stay where you put it. None of these may work because the cross-section tapers down to such a small area exposing the raw steel innerds.

  15. #345
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    I bought some solid brass square bar stock and it's actually the perfect size to make the yard arm. I might actually have to add a bit of thickness in the center. So instead of having to file away a ton of material, I have to add some. Will be getting down in the shop shortly and work on the masts some more. Working off-line with Doktor to design the packing and we're on to something that might work.

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