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Thread: Building a Tamiya Missouri with Super-detailing

  1. #211
    Contributor Builder 2010's Avatar
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    Me 1, Catapults 0

    Through sheer force of will, I persisted and actually created a complete catapult with only one small railing missing. It isn't pretty! Thank goodness it will never be viewed as close as I do when working with the magnifying hood or the closeup pictures I'm taking.

    The drilling holes and sticking the railings through before CA'ing worked...sort of. While the railings are actually on the cat, they not straight, nor smoothe, nor anything else like they'd be if they were designed to stay on in the first place.

    Here's the complete cat with the launch car. I just reviewed the Floating Drydock catapult drawing and realized that those thingys sticking out of the front are mounted completely wrong. They were a pain in the butt to get attached like that and they're going to have to be ripped off and remounted. What they are is shock absorbers to stop the launch car when it reaches the end of its travel. I'll fix them tomorrow and mount the second set correctly. There's even a pulley wheel buried underneath that no one will ever see, especially since I mounted it too deeply. According to the same drawing, it's actually supposed to stick down pretty far and is suspended on some kind of axle system.

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    I then went forward with my plan to drill all the holes before removing the piece from the fret while still in the flat to help align the holes with the railings. Good idea... one of the railings had already fallen off before I drilled the holes. Those are some mighty small holes, but they're lined up correctly. The railings fit into them pretty well.

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    I determined something else after working with the first cat...it makes it easier to work the railings, etc., if the bottom plate is glued in once the major bends are completed. It firms up the whole piece, especially those very frail and flexible catwalks.

    I made good progress on Cat #2 and it's coming out better than #1. I just have to do more of them.... I really think they could be terrific models if Eduard would have just engineered the assembly differently. Having railings suspended by what amounts to hair-thin half-hard brass just doesn't cut it.

    Here's both cats posed in their final positions. Both cats still need to be re-airbrushed. Uniform color will make them look better.

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    Tomorrow we'll have completed cats and I'll start working on the ship's crane. That should be fun too.

  2. #212
    Contributor Builder 2010's Avatar
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    Me 1, Cats 1

    After reviewing the scale drawing, I decided to scratch build some kind of damper. The dampers are a bit more complex than my attempt, but when painted, and immersed in the rest of the details on the ship, the complexity will not be missed.

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    Here's the original PE damper (Slightly misshapen after forcibly removing it from its incorrect location) and my version next to it. The ram is 0.024" music wire and the vent line (I am supposing it some kind of vent) is .014" music wire. It's the smallest drills that I have so I couldn't go any smaller. The strap is made of the fret from the PE and is pretty good for making stuff.

    Name:  Cat Damper comparison.jpg
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    While this little 4-part construction shouldn't really take too much time, should it? Well... how's three hours sound? The main problem was drills. I was using those 0.0135" carbide bits and broke all of them. One broke when the pin vise slipped, but several broke in the hole. That meant scrapping the part. It wasn't the bore hole. That went easily. It was the hole on top for the vent line. I had some high-speed steel drills of similar size, but they just didn't want to cut.

    Name:  Cat Dampers in Place.jpg
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    The bottom plate fell off when doing all this work on the cat, so I was able to reinstall the pulley at the right depth. I put a piece of 0.022" brass wire through it as an axle and glued that to the bottom plate.

    I'm now working on the 2nd cat and it's going smoother. Both of the dampers are finished and I'll install them after all the railings are in place. Whew....!

    Once they're all finished, I'll airbrush them. I'm thinking to not install them until the main deck rails are in place. They're too delicate. Same goes for the ship's crane. While I'm screwing around with this, I'm wondering if I should put a few bits of round stock on the platform to simulate the motor drive units that are shown on the plans. I feel a strong case of AMS coming on.
    Last edited by Builder 2010; 05 Nov 11, at 16:06.
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  3. #213
    Resident Curmudgeon Military Professional Gun Grape's Avatar
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    Looking good. Let me see if I can help with the onset of AMS
    Attached Images Attached Images     
    Last edited by Gun Grape; 06 Nov 11, at 22:33.
    Its called Tourist Season. So why can't we shoot them?

  4. #214
    Contributor Builder 2010's Avatar
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    OMG! Where did you get these? My contraption is not too far off, just a little big. I just don't have any possible way to make all that ribbing. At 1:350 it's microscopic. I taught my Grandpop's Scale Model Workshop today and only had a few kids present so I brought my PE stuff from home and in the quiet times tried to reattach those Y(#%_)U railings. With no luck. In fact, I actually made matters worse. I'm coming up with several alternative schemes on how to get the rails fastened without making a further mess. One thought is to fabricate new rails off the model using brass wire. Another thought would be to take the existing railings and attach them to a small strip of masking tape with just the tips of the verticals sticking out below. Then instert all the points into the holes up the tape and then CA. I've been having a terrible time getting the rails into the holes, but not too deeply. I just can't hold them in that position long enough for the CA to work. The tape might be the answer. It's very frustrating when some assembly or another decides to be the "Waterloo" after all this work has been done.

  5. #215
    Resident Curmudgeon Military Professional Gun Grape's Avatar
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    If they are that much of a problem, order some others. Either Toms or GMM. I have heard good things about both.

    Don't let bad PE kill an outstanding build.
    Its called Tourist Season. So why can't we shoot them?

  6. #216
    Resident Curmudgeon Military Professional Gun Grape's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Builder 2010 View Post
    OMG! Where did you get these?
    NavSource. Its from a SD class but the cats were the same.


    Instructions for Operation of Catapult Type P


    As were most of the stuff in the links on this page.

    http://www.navsource.org/archives/01/06bbidx.htm
    Its called Tourist Season. So why can't we shoot them?

  7. #217
    Defense Professional Dreadnought's Avatar
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    Pretty neat that those Cats with the plane to launch were fired with a comparable 5"/38 propellant round, the speed they achived in such short span and how little they fell before flying away. In some ways the landing and reboarding were just as cool considering you had to have a well skilled helmsman to assist in laying out the "carpet" for the plane to land, taxi and then hook up and swung aboard back upon the Cat and away they went.
    Last edited by Dreadnought; 07 Nov 11, at 04:27.
    Fortitude.....The strength to persist...The courage to endure.

  8. #218
    Contributor Builder 2010's Avatar
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    Gun Grape is right. I will buy a different set of PE for the cats. Considering the time I've already wasted wrestling with this stuff I should have bought different product days ago. Both Toms and Alliance have frets dedicated to my needs. GMM and WEM make you buy a bigger fret. Which one produces product that is the least tempramental?

  9. #219
    Contributor Builder 2010's Avatar
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    It was the Best of Times, it was the Worst of Times...

    First of all, I did purchase the catapult set from Alliance Modelworks and had a nice running commentary from Brian Nicolletti there about the troubles I've been having and some possible remedies. It should be here in a couple days.

    Meanwhile, I started working on the ship's crane, and the experience is described by today's title.

    The crane went together nicely. It looks great and very frail. The base also went together well and even has inner framing that looks very realistic. Then I built the tripod backrigging. It too actually went together decently. I used a piece of music wire to align the three holes at the top of the structure and then glued in the lower tie-ins.

    Here's a picture of the crane at that point in time.

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    Looks pretty good... right?

    The side legs of the tripod were deformed a bit. I decided to carefully try to un-deform them. Then all hell broke loose. The thin part separated from the enlarged round end at the etched bend line. You really don't need an etched line to show where to bend the little offsets for these parts and it horribly weakens them.

    In the act of removing the old round head from the top assembly (all very strongly CA'd) I destroyed the other two legs. So I turned to PE set #2. I cut out the three parts and started putting them together and the round ends detached from both side legs turning them into scrap. So now what do I do?

    I decided to make additional legs using some of the narrow strips from the PE frets themselves. I measured the center-to-center distance of the original legs and set them out with a divider. Then drilled holes to accept some small pins (styrene). Here's a display of the good, bad and very ugly.

    I started reassembling this reconstituted structure, but didn't get too far along before having to stop. I take more pics when I finish it. Etched bend points are definitely a blessing and curse. In most cases the latter.

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    Since taking the picture I rounded the ends of the bars to make them look less impromptu. It shouldn't be too glaring when rebuilt.
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  10. #220
    Resident Curmudgeon Military Professional Gun Grape's Avatar
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    So do I need to go ahead and order the GMM PE before I start my build?

    Let us know how the Alliance stuff works. I've never used it. Toms, GMM and White Ensign have been my go to stuff.

    Did get 3 sets of Ed. Two 1/35 sets (M-107 and M-101 howitzer) and the Missouri set, because of the price. Maybe I need to build the 2 guns to get the feel of using their PE before I start on the ship.

    Keep driving on.
    Its called Tourist Season. So why can't we shoot them?

  11. #221
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    The Alliance stuff arrived today. It's finely etched too, but the assembly process is different. The rails are attached to their decks, but the decks are separate and aren't put on until the main rail structure is bent. That should protect the railings a little longer. I'd probably buy GMM if I were to do it again. I think they're stuff's a little more rugged. You'd need both sets to do a complete job and even then they don't give you what Eduard does. In that I mean the sides of the all of the superstructure decks. That's a detail I really liked on Eduard and since they're flat with no bends, they really worked well and look great. SO.... use GMM and one Eduard set. That should do it. I think Eduard on larger scales might be a bit better.

  12. #222
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    New Cats Part 1

    After a weekend trip to State College, PA to see Penn State play Nebraska, I got some time in the shop today. I also have another small consulting gig that's cutting into Missouri time.

    I finished up the crane except for touch up paint and rigging. When I left it last week I had re-made the tripod stanchions, and opened the holes up so I could use some styrene rod to pin the hinge points more firmly. All of this worked!

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    There's no doubt that the scratch-built supports are clunkier than the wispy original ones, but they're not going to fall apart either. Once the crane is painted and rigged, it will be less noticeable. I had thought of ways to narrow their waists, such as gluing (or soldering) the thin pieces to some thicker stock, filing the waist and then de-bonding them, but thought that it was overkill and used them as is.

    Refastening the boom went easily and the crane was back together. I then drilled a 0.047" hole in the bottom and glued in a styrene pin that would help center and stabilize it when glued in the hole in the aft deck, and hold it down to this board so I can airbrush it again.

    Name:  Crane Comp no final paint.jpg
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    I'm contemplating using stretched sprue to rig the ship, and will practice on the crane.

    Now that this fun was over, it was time to attempt making ANOTHER catapult; this time using the new ones from Alliance Modelworks. While some of the continuing adventure purported to be easier than the Eduard version, as you all will see as we move along, that those miserable railings continue to be my undoing. I seriously think there is something fundamentally wrong with my modeling skills in that I continue to break these damn things off. Unfortunately (for me) Alliance also etches all of their bend lines which makes these railings almost unmanageable. I wish they didn't etch that bend. You don't need it. It's obvious where the rails need to bend and the etch reduces the thickness by half. That leaves about 0.005" and is it very fragile. I sound like a broken record here, but this is getting frustrating.

    Here's a shot of the entire fret. Notice some differences with Eduard. Alliance makes the entire girder structure as a box with all four sides, but doesn't have any of the catwalks attached. It then adds another layer on top for the launch way that includes little launch dampers on the ends that fold up. The railings are attached to each catwalk and are to be folded upwards.

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    Folding the girder went well with CA applied to the edges of the bottom to secure it. This was much easier than fitting in and gluing the separate bottom on the Eduard piece. The center section has a foldup set of boxes that simulate the drive and control mechanisms and that too went well. The center section has a glue-on platform with railing. That railing kept getting bumped (by me) and after a couple of nudges, fell off.

    The nightmare returns!!!

    The catwalks butt glue to the girder assembly. To give more surface area for gluing and support I chose to add some little cross members on the bottom. This works, but meanwhile, another two railings fell off. That makes three rails off and two remaining so far. I think the mistake I made was attempting to bend the rails before gluing the platforms in place. This was just the first one. I have one more to screw up.

    Name:  New Cat Progress 1.jpg
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    Next session I will finish up the first cat and then attempt to build number 2. I don't have those #80 carbide drills anymore. They're all broken. I will have to get more of them if I want to drill the catwalks like I tried on the Eduard units. No matter what, trying to get the railings back on is no fun and is next to impossible.
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  13. #223
    Senior Contributor Doktor's Avatar
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    Told ya to visit a dentist. Would've been cheaper.
    No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

    To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

  14. #224
    Contributor Builder 2010's Avatar
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    No building this week, but just wanted to wish all my readers a Happy and Fulfilling Thanksgiving. Won't probably get to the ship until sometime next week and then it's CAT WRESTLING all over again.
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  15. #225
    Battleship Enthusiast Defense Professional USSWisconsin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Builder 2010 View Post
    No building this week, but just wanted to wish all my readers a Happy and Fulfilling Thanksgiving. Won't probably get to the ship until sometime next week and then it's CAT WRESTLING all over again.
    Happy Thanksgiving, and thanks again for this great thread!
    "If your plan is for one year, plant rice. If your plan is for ten years, plant trees.
    If your plan is for one hundred years, educate children."

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