Which Are The Best Air Force Pilots? - Page 24

globaltracker · 01-26-2007, 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zraver

germany had the instructors and training doctrine it needed to dominate the air. What it lacked was strategic vision, fuel reserves, and scale. Werner (Bubby) Molders didn't join the fighting until 1943 and in less than 2 years racked up 352 kills. However his was the last generation of the superbly trained pilots the Luftwaffe started the war with.

neve rintending to fight a protracted war the training regime was not scaled up in time to mee the demands of a four and five front war. What resulted then in 43 when the 8th got into the game was a stripping of frontline squadrons for interior defense and a crash course to put warm bodies in areoplanes. And it worked well into 1944. Veteran Gemran pilots in FW-190's and intercpetor versions of the Me 109 like the Me109G-14 would so the rookies how to fight and later fend off the limite dnumber of escorting P-38, P-47 and Spitfires while younger piltos and zerstroyer pilots ravaged the bombers.

Then the American's through out the rule book and added large drop tanks to the P-47 and new P-51 and began staggering the arrival of the escorts by sectors so that the bombers got handed off from one group to another. This was only possible beucase America never skimped on training and the massive classes enrolled in 41 and early 42 were now ready for combat en masse.

The results were devestating suddenly the gemrans had to fight thier way in and fight thier way out and losses skyrocketed in late 43 and early 44. The atrtrition wa sso high that whole Air Flets were moved form the east to the west to be offere dup like lambs to a slaughter. The bomber war wrecked the Luftwaffe and by the late Spring of 44 it was a broken force.

It wasn't until the bomber war's success in bleeding the Luftwaffe white that the VVS enjoyed any real success in the air. Destroyed trains had nothing to do with it. Gemrany flew its pilots and fighters to the front as rail capacity was already at a premium with the needs of the army/ SS/ Luftwaffe feild divisions, econiomic trains carryign plunder and food stuffs, and finally the special trains headed to and from the death camps.

For almsot the entire war the Russian fighter pilot was a joke, they had a few exceptional pilots, but as a percentage of the total comapred to the other airforces it was miniscule. Russia simply didn't have the time or resources to develop awestern style airforce, and it didn't need it. Russia's best were used in the ground atack role in IL-2M's to direclty assist the Army. Figfhters were not thier to win control of the air, but to protect the VVS's tacitcal bombers. This is in stark contrast to every other magor airforce where the best were put in fighters in order to gain control of the air.

The Russians achieved a great deal in World War Two, and paid for those achievements in blood. However they were not the best, not by along shot. They won more beucase of Hitler and his henchmen, rahter than in spite of the great German genralship.

The biggest advantage americans& their allies had is that they could train their pilots without any fear of any bomb falling on them in USA in the shadows of safety provided by two massive oceans. I bet that Hitlor never would have thought about this advantage. I do agree the vision of the german's were little shortcoming at the end they started to roll out the best of there engineering technology when they were no good and experienced men to fight were it matters. At the end its the same story seen by many men all along the history there vision taking many lives with them at the end.

cheers

Jimmy · 01-27-2007, 01:26 AM

Germany had that same advantage for quite a while too, if I recall correctly.

Archer · 01-27-2007, 02:08 AM

The title of this thread should be: how many posters are there in WAB from the countries to which the following AF's belong?

Russian Air Force 15 9.09%
U S A F 33 20.00%
P L A A F - China 3 1.82%
Indian Air Force 47 28.48%
R A F 15 9.09%
R A A F - Australia 3 1.82%
Canadian Air Force 6 3.64%
Luftwaffe 5 3.03%
French Air Force 1 0.61%
Royal Saudi Air Force 0 0%
Israeli Air Force 27 16.36%
Imperial Iranian Air Force 1 0.61%
PAF - Pakistan

Jimmy · 01-27-2007, 13:22 PM

What blows my mind is that people actually picked air forces that get virtually no flying time at all. Its amazing such pilots dont drive their planes right into the fricken GROUND.

Mekstizzle · 01-27-2007, 14:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Archer

The title of this thread should be: how many posters are there in WAB from the countries to which the following AF's belong?

Russian Air Force 15 9.09%
U S A F 33 20.00%
P L A A F - China 3 1.82%
Indian Air Force 47 28.48%
R A F 15 9.09%
R A A F - Australia 3 1.82%
Canadian Air Force 6 3.64%
Luftwaffe 5 3.03%
French Air Force 1 0.61%
Royal Saudi Air Force 0 0%
Israeli Air Force 27 16.36%
Imperial Iranian Air Force 1 0.61%
PAF - Pakistan

Yeah all polls might aswell be like that lol. This poll is nothing but a "where are you from" poll disguised as something more interesting...

zenimal · 01-30-2007, 20:16 PM

Indian Air Force in the lead? lol.

USAF is the best in the world, best trained and best equipped, plus they have the best combat history.

MarquezRazor · 01-31-2007, 00:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimmy

What blows my mind is that people actually picked air forces that get virtually no flying time at all. Its amazing such pilots dont drive their planes right into the fricken GROUND.

And the Saudis didnt get any LOL!

Garry · 01-31-2007, 15:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zraver

For almsot the entire war the Russian fighter pilot was a joke, they had a few exceptional pilots, but as a percentage of the total comapred to the other airforces it was miniscule. Russia simply didn't have the time or resources to develop awestern style airforce, and it didn't need it. Russia's best were used in the ground atack role in IL-2M's to direclty assist the Army. Figfhters were not thier to win control of the air, but to protect the VVS's tacitcal bombers. This is in stark contrast to every other magor airforce where the best were put in fighters in order to gain control of the air.

The Russians achieved a great deal in World War Two, and paid for those achievements in blood. However they were not the best, not by along shot. They won more beucase of Hitler and his henchmen, rahter than in spite of the great German genralship.

Indeed, having lost most of its pilots in 1941-42, Soviet AF had little time to train newcommers... hence the big losses. Moreover, commanders did not learn their from their losses until the end of the war - tacktics changed a lot in 1943.

However by the end of the war Russian AF was quite a formidable force in terms of pilot quality. This was proven during the direct clash in Korea with four soviet fighter regiments and USAF and NAVY on the other side. While both aircraft (MiG-15 vs Sabre) were quite a comparable, Soviet pilots scored 10 times to their losses.

Read, book by Pepelyayev - the commander of 196th regiment who scored 23 aircraft (20 confirmed) during his yearly mission in Korea. During his visit to USA to meetings of veterns of Korean war it he met a lot of disbelief from US participants on his count... they noted 13:1 score of USAF, not distiguishing Chinese pilots from Soviet pilots. But fact is - 196th IAP has scored more than a hundred aircraft including 70 sabres to loss of 10 aircraft and 5 pilots.

OK. Back to the issue.... those pilots were WW II veterans!!! I would not call them low quaility

subba · 02-28-2007, 05:34 AM

Quote:

Indian Air Force in the lead? lol.

USAF is the best in the world, best trained and best equipped, plus they have the best combat history.

Zenimal SIr, the best AF yes. The best equipment yes. Best trained? That is subjective.

Quotes from earlier exercises between USAF and IAF.

Quote:

These same U.S. participants say the Indian pilots showed innovation and flexibility in their tactics. They also admit that they came into the exercise underrating the training and tactics of the pilots they faced. Instead of typical Cold War-style, ground-controlled interceptions, the Indians varied aircraft mixes, altitudes and formations. Indian air force planners never reinforced failure or repeated tactics that the U.S. easily repelled. Moreover, the IAF's airborne commanders changed tactics as opportunities arose. Nor did U.S. pilots believe they faced only India's top guns. Instead, they said that at least in some units they faced a mix of experienced and relatively new Indian fighter and strike pilots.

Quote:

Although service officials have been reluctant to detail how the Indians performed against the six F-15Cs from the 3rd Wing that participated in Cope India, Rep. Duke Cunningham (R-CA) said in a Feb. 26 House Appropriations defense subcommittee hearing that U.S. F-15Cs were defeated more than 90 percent of the time in direct combat exercises against the IAF.

Quote:

But American officials also credited Indian pilots with being "very proficient in [their] aircraft[s] and smart on tactics. That combination was tough for us to overcome," USAF Col. Greg Neubeck told Inside the Air Force.

Quote:

Chirstopher Coglianese counters on the National Security Roundtable (NSRT) discussion group. "Remember that the Indians have two hostile nations on their border, both with credible air forces. Indian pilots actually fly almost twice as many hours a month as ours and much of it is under operational conditions. Even though equipped with Russian-designed aircraft, as the Air said to me, they ain't the Russians (notorious for being undertrained)."

So the poll results may have some credibility despite scepticism.

ducks for cover

Jimmy · 02-28-2007, 23:05 PM

Cope India 04 again? Oh boy.

maxwell · 03-14-2007, 19:41 PM

This just proves how much Indians outnumber every other race.

gamercube · 03-15-2007, 00:50 AM

This video, IMO, is relevant to the above posts.

YouTube - Russell Peters whole world's mixing

Amaterasu · 03-16-2007, 21:31 PM

where's Liechtenstein? Can't have a best AF thread without them.

Glosters UK · 03-17-2007, 06:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zenimal

Indian Air Force in the lead? lol.

USAF is the best in the world, best trained and best equipped, plus they have the best combat history.

Best combat history??

Hows about the oldest independent air force in the world... the Royal Airforce!
I have no doubt that the USAF is amungst the best in the world and indeed has a superb history, but against real opposition?? To my knowledge the majority of air combat in the last 30 years has been against third rate arab etc airforces.
This leaves you with WW2 combat history that is no better than the RAF.

I have no argument with the best equipped as well you should be as you are the richest nation on earth.

neilmpenny · 03-17-2007, 10:44 AM

Why wasn't the Indian airforce included in the poll? Last year they had a 'Top gun' competition in India and the USAF got totally spanked.

01-27-2007, 02:08 AM	#348 (permalink)
Archer *Senior Contributor* Join Date: 10-13-03 Posts: 2,888	The title of this thread should be: how many posters are there in WAB from the countries to which the following AF's belong? Russian Air Force 15 9.09% U S A F 33 20.00% P L A A F - China 3 1.82% Indian Air Force 47 28.48% R A F 15 9.09% R A A F - Australia 3 1.82% Canadian Air Force 6 3.64% Luftwaffe 5 3.03% French Air Force 1 0.61% Royal Saudi Air Force 0 0% Israeli Air Force 27 16.36% Imperial Iranian Air Force 1 0.61% PAF - Pakistan __________________ Karmani Vyapurutham Dhanuhu My bow is stretched for its task

03-17-2007, 10:44 AM	#360 (permalink)
neilmpenny Regular Join Date: 09-26-06 Location: Singapore via Australia Posts: 75 Country:	Why wasn't the Indian airforce included in the poll? Last year they had a 'Top gun' competition in India and the USAF got totally spanked. __________________ No sea too rough, no muf* too tough.

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View Poll Results: Which Are The Best Air Force Pilots :
Russian Air Force	15	7.85%
U S A F	46	24.08%
P L A A F - China	3	1.57%
Indian Air Force	54	28.27%
R A F	18	9.42%
R A A F - Australia	3	1.57%
Canadian Air Force	6	3.14%
Luftwaffe	5	2.62%
French Air Force	1	0.52%
Royal Saudi Air Force	0	0%
Israeli Air Force	29	15.18%
Imperial Iranian Air Force	1	0.52%
PAF - Pakistan	10	5.24%
Voters: 191. You may not vote on this poll

01-27-2007, 01:26 AM	#347 (permalink)
Jimmy *Military Professional* Join Date: 11-16-05 Posts: 1,032 Country:	Germany had that same advantage for quite a while too, if I recall correctly.

01-27-2007, 13:22 PM	#349 (permalink)
Jimmy *Military Professional* Join Date: 11-16-05 Posts: 1,032 Country:	What blows my mind is that people actually picked air forces that get virtually no flying time at all. Its amazing such pilots dont drive their planes right into the fricken GROUND.

01-30-2007, 20:16 PM	#351 (permalink)
zenimal New Member Join Date: 01-30-07 Posts: 12	Indian Air Force in the lead? lol. USAF is the best in the world, best trained and best equipped, plus they have the best combat history.

02-28-2007, 23:05 PM	#355 (permalink)
Jimmy *Military Professional* Join Date: 11-16-05 Posts: 1,032 Country:	Cope India 04 again? Oh boy.

03-14-2007, 19:41 PM	#356 (permalink)
maxwell Banished Join Date: 01-20-07 Posts: 10	This just proves how much Indians outnumber every other race.

03-15-2007, 00:50 AM	#357 (permalink)
gamercube Banished *Senior Contributor* Join Date: 11-20-06 Location: Barbados Posts: 771 Country:	This video, IMO, is relevant to the above posts. YouTube - Russell Peters whole world's mixing

03-16-2007, 21:31 PM	#358 (permalink)
Amaterasu Contributor Join Date: 05-16-06 Posts: 718	where's Liechtenstein? Can't have a best AF thread without them.

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