vishv29

i m not talking abt the war,i just want a comparison that which one is better,more modern and more capable...

ajaybhutani

read first .. ?? do ur homework first .. then ask for help..

Lunatock

IDF Members Big Ross, his pal Insomniac, and Maya, armed with aerosol cans of deodorant..could route any french infantry div. with the exception of the Foreign Legion.

giggs88

I hear 1/3rd of the FFL is made up of Frogs!1

vishv29

hmmmm.... forum with full of dead people.bunch of jokers.i have always noticed one thing abt u people that any thread started on this forum always ends up in teasing each other.show me which single thread have been seriously discussed by u people?if there is thread like usa vs india u people suddenly while discussing turn it to china vs india after that u jokers start teasing each other and finally it results into flame war.if u dont remember just check all the previous threads.no single thread has been seriously discussed by u people.why?becoz of ur lack of ability to stick to a subject.BUNCH OF JOKERS.I AM NOT GOING TO VISIT THIS STUPID FORUM SITE AGAIN....GOOD BYE :

giggs88

Good riddance.

TopHatter

Starting countless fanciful threads whilst still a newbie is just a really silly way of endearing yourself to a board.

You had trouble making friends in high school didn't you?

Suit yourself...and please, allow me to facilitate your vow.

__________________
If your actions inspire others to dream more, learn more, do more and become more, you are a leader.
~John Quincy Adams

Maximus

Oooh! Another one bites the dust!! Where do they come from BTW.

__________________
Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage.

TopHatter

All points of the compass.

JG73

..............

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>Facit Omnia Voluntas<

JG73

O.K.: Because I'm bored I'm going to compare both AFs. It's just my personal conclusion in a very simplified way.


1)First of all I'm listing the fighter jets of both countries. I'm not listing fighter bombers because I'm only going to compare who would win air dominance. I'm also not factoring air defence systems. Only fighter against fighter with AEWA support. The numbers I'm giving are not 100% exact at the present because especially the FAF is restructering alot currently.

France
60 Rafale M
139 Rafale B
95 Rafale C
86 Mirage 2000 D
139 Mirage 2000 C/B/-5F
->Mirage F1s and Jaguars are replaced currently
4 E-3 F
3 E-2 C


Israel
24 F-15 A
2 F-15 B
18 F-15 C
8 F-15 D
25 F-15 I (factored because of good air to air capabilities)
74 F-16 A/B
128 F-16 C/D Block 30/40
50 F-16 ? Block 10
102 F-16 I
-> F-4s only reserved
6 Beech King Air A200 CT (RC-12D)
4 E-2 C
4 Gulfstreem G550 (CAEW)




2)According to my sources, E-3 F (APY-1/2) and E-2 C (APS-145) are both able to detect a fighter of a RCS of 3m2 on a distance of 267km.
Now I'm going to compare on what distance each aircraft of both AFs is able to be detected by E-3F and E-2C of French Air Force and E-2 C of Israeli Air Force.
This computation only is factoring radar detection distance and radar cross section, nothing else.


Distance on what French fighter jets are possibly detected by Israeli E-2Cs.
Rafale(RCS about 0,1m2) -> 114km
Mirage(RCS about 1,5m2) -> 225km

Distance on what Israeli fighter jets are possibly detected by French E-3Fs or E-2Cs.
F-16Cs and newer F-16s(RCS about 1,2m2) -> 212km
older F-16s(RCS about 2m2) -> 241km
F-15I(RCS about 10m2) -> 361km
other F-15s(RCS about 15m2) -> 399km

Conclusion: With exception of the Rafale none of the aircrafts is able to surprise the enemy. Only the Rafale (Detection range about 275km-Tracking range about 183km)is able to shoot down an AWACS or Hawkeye without any problems, before getting detected itself when it is eqipped with Meteor(up to 200km against aicrafts like AWACS). That would bring an enormous operative advantage to the French Air Force.




3)Fighter vs. fighter.
Now I'm going to compare each fighter against each other in the same way I did in 2).


Detection (about 130km on 5m2) and Tracking(about 2/3 of DR) range of Rafale (RBE2 ) against Israeli fighter jets.
F-15A/B/C/D -> 171km/114km
F-15I -> 155km/103km
F-16Cs and newer F-16s -> 91km/61km
older F-16s -> 103km/70km

Detection (about 130-140km on 5m2) and Tracking(about 2/3 of DR) range of Mirage 2000-5 (RDY-2) against Israeli fighter jets.
F-15A/B/C/D -> 171-184km/114-123km
F-15I -> 155-166km/103-111km
F-16Cs and newer F-16s -> 91-98km/61-65km
older F-16s -> 103-111km/70-74km

Detection (about 130km on 5m2) and Tracking(about 2/3 of DR) range of F-16I (AN/APG-68(V)9) against French fighter jets.
Rafale -> 49km/33km
Mirages -> 96km/64km

Detection (about 80km on 5m2) and Tracking(about 2/3 of DR) range of
F-16 C/D Block 30/40 (AN/APG-68?) against French fighter jets.
Rafale -> 30km/20km
Mirages -> 59km/39km

Detection (about 160km on 5m2) and Tracking(about 2/3 of DR) range of
F-15I(AN/APG-70) against French fighter jets.
Rafale -> 60km/40km
Mirages -> 118km/79km

Detection (about 110km on 5m2) and Tracking(about 2/3 of DR) range of
F-15A/B(AN/APG-63) against French fighter jets.
Rafale -> 41km/28km
Mirages -> 81km/54km

F-15C/D I don't know exactly which radar is fitted in. In the early units there should be AN/APG-63 in the later ones AN/APG-70 or AN/APG-63(v)2 (?) Maybe someone knows that.

Conclusion: with the Rafale the French Air Force has an highly superior fighter which is able to shoot down every fighter in the Israeli repertour even before it gets detected. Together with the Meteor which has a range against fighter jets of more than 100km it would let the F-15s and F-16s no chance.



4) Agility.
Although agility isn't so important anymore I'm going to compare the planes against each other. In this case I try to make the agility clear with computation of thrust/weight ratio and wing loading. Of course that's just a bauble and doesn't give a perfect solution about the real performances. Not included into the computaion are the airframe and things like canards or thrust vectoring (which would increase agility).


Thrust Weight Ratio
Normally an aircraft's acceleration is calculated as its thrust minus its drag, divided by its mass. Because I don't know the drags of all these aircrafts I'm not factoring it. As the mass I take 75% of the MTOW.

Rafale M: 1,08
Rafale C: 0,93
Rafale B: 0,93
Mirage 2000-5: 0,84
F-16A: 1,07
F-16B: 1,07
F-16C B42: 0,93
F-16D B42: 0,93
F-16I: 1,14
F-15A/B: 1,25
F-15C/D: 1,03
F-15I: 1,06



Wing Loading
An aircraft's ability to turn can be approximately gauged by its wing loading. This is the mass of the aircraft divided by the area of the wings. The bigger the wings, the easier it is for them to push the aircraft in a direction other than that it is currently travelling. I'm calculating with 75% MTOW.


Rafale M: 342
Rafale C: 399
Rafale B: 399
Mirage: 311
F-16A/B: 401
F-16C/D: 458
F-16I: 458
F-15A/B: 337
F-15C/D: 410
F-15I: 488


Conclusion: Nearly impossible to make a conclusion without factoring the airframe. So do it yourself.

indianguy4u

Hardworking JG73 . Thanks for info of both the AFs.

I am betting on stalemate.

__________________
Hala Madrid!!

Maximus

Yeah, lets leave it to the ground forces!!

Lunatock

Ok so 1/3 of the FFL would get schooled by Maya, the second third would shove BR's can of right guard up his poop chute, and the third third of the French Foreign Legion would shove Big Ross up Insomniac's ****.

JG73

No 'Hardworking' just a bit pastime.