The_Burning_Kid

I would say hardly indegenious, my friend. The J-10 is a clone of the F-16 basically with canards and some other changes that the Chinese did to make it look different than the F-16. Hell, Pakistan and Israel helped it out, both of which had F-16s or made a prototype aircraft that was extremely similar to the F-16.

From the picture that I saw of the J-11B, it pretty much looks like a Chinese-ripped design of the Su-27 family aircraft. But maybe that's me.

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tphuang

Yeah, J-10 is based Lavi. It does have some commonalities with F-16, but all of the calculations and design still had to be done by CAC. Calculations had to be done because we were using AL-31FN instead of the American engine. Also, I'm sure the canard, the variable intakes and delta wings aren't things you see on F-16. All of the avionics and stuff like that are all home-made also.

As for J-11B, it is still licensed production of su-27, but all the avionics, AAMs and engine are all developed by Chinese companies. Actually, they were all developed for J-10, but we were so unsatified with the Russian systems that we just put all of them on J-11. Only the airframe is still based on the flankers, but even that is 100% domestically made now.

So, it's unlikely that China will buy anymore fighters from Russia in the future. The Chinese fifth generation plane went into wind tunnel 2 years ago, so who knows, it might come out before PAK-FA does.

indianguy4u

Any links ?

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ajaybhutani

you have already replaced the engines of J11 from AL31F to WS10 ??
thats a big news..

tphuang

JANE'S DEFENCE WEEKLY - DECEMBER 11, 2002

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

China launches new stealth fighter project
YIHONG CHANG JDW Correspondent
Zhuhai

The Shenyang Aircraft Company has been selected to head research and development of a new heavyweight fighter for China's People's Liberation Army Air Force (PLAAF), according to a senior source at the China Aviation Industry Corp I (AVIC I).

Development of the engines and weapon subsystems for the fourth-generation fighter has been under way for some time, according to the source, who revealed that a number of design concepts have already been created. Wind-tunnel tests of these are about to start, including the two configurations pictured here. They show a twin-engine aircraft sharing some design traits with Lockheed Martin's stealthy F/A-22 multirole fighter, now undergoing tests with the US Air Force, such as the internal carriage of its weapon systems. The Chinese designs retain a more conventional wing, however, and use a single vertical tail fin.

AVIC I officials told Jane's Defence Weekly that the new aircraft - tentatively dubbed the J-X and possibly to receive the service designation J-13A - could use the WS10A turbofan engine designed by the Shenyang Liming Motor Company during its development and trials process.

In development for more than a decade, the WS10-series power plant completed air trials earlier this year with an Su-27SK (NATO reporting name: 'Flanker-B') fighter. The WS10A is scheduled for introduction with the PLAAF's new J-10A fighter, which has yet to be formally unveiled.

Continuing research into advanced control techniques is expected to in time allow the air force to field WS10A-powered J-10A and J-X fighters equipped with thrust-vectoring nozzles offering improved aircraft manoeuvrability.

Chinese television has shown images of President Jiang Zemin inspecting this project. The concepts indicate that the thrust-vectoring nozzle can be deflected by up to ±15º in any direction. Perfecting thrust-vectoring flight is one of the key aviation development programmes within Beijing's current five-year plan - a cap ability tipped to "improve the J-10A's short take-off and landing performance and [enable it to] attain the manoeuvrability standard of the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter", said one industry source.


Personally, I think CAC's medium fighter will actually finish a lot earlier, since it takes a lot of technology from the J-10 airframe.


As for J-11B, it's definitely using WS-10A. It just passed the final major test recently, so it's ready for certification. They are probably going to produce 60 WS-10As next year, so that would equip 20 J-11Bs I guess.

bull

Dont worry,i also voted.

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-{SpoonmaN}-

Yeah as far as I'd heard the PLA were in the early design and developement stages with the J-XX, but given their history of tech trouble and time overruns I'd say it's a pretty long way off serivce. Last I read about the Pak-Fa was that it was being developed from the Su-47 tech demonstrator with a conventional wing design and all that, but it was also claimed to be a long way from realisation, especially given the trouble finding funds, since the Russian Military seems to be planning to simply skip the 5th Generation of warplanes and stick to 4.5 until their economy is back up to strength and they can start catching up with the next gen in a few decades. Whether or not that would work is beyond me. I thought they were trying to merge the program with the MCA but that could well have been baloney. Really it seems to me that China would benefit from Russian know-how if they're ever going to have a chance of producing a plane to rival the Raptor before the USAF is taking delivery of something like the F/A-22E Super Raptor.

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Garry

Hi SpoonmaN, they continue working on 5th generation but no information is available.

Russia is going to spend $180bn on weapon procurement by 2015 (around 20bn annually). Sepratedly Russia is planning to fund R&D for 5th generation aircraft - it is going to be a light and a heavy aircraft.

So far the problem is that Russia can build a 5th generation engine which would supercruise but it is too expensive...... So work is now how to make it really affordable while exceeding performance of Raptor's F119-PW-100. Currently Russia has Izdeliye 117 which is build up on the AL-31F with larger fan. I-117 has less performance on speed (though supersonic) but stated to consume much less fuel that F119-PW-100. If I-117 is finished to a serial model it would be refitted into EXISTING Flankers making them supercruising.

Canmoore

I know! I know!

A Mentally Retarted Autistic American Meatbag

..where do i collect my prize?

GGTharos

In other words, they 'can't do it'. They're not 'quite there' yet. They ain't got the 'oomph'

Very powerful engines have been refitted to existing USAF jets, but there's a point of diminishing returns - the fuselage design is quite important.

Garry

Yes, I heard that Flanker's frame is best at subsonic speeds and not designed for extended supersonic flight. Nonetheless Flankers did supercruise with use of Izdeliye 117c. Hence I assume that with this engine a better designed frame can supercruise much better!

Jimmy

A new frame is a fairly significant upgrade, though.

Designing an aircraft around an engine is a risky proposition, especially since there isnt a huge market for 5th generation fighters right now (the guaranteed hefty price is a major turn-off).