flanker

my friend wanted to know which is better overall, the Su-27 Flanker or the F-15 Eagle

tphuang

depends on which F-15 is compared to which su-27. In general, I'd say F-15 kicks su-27.

canoe

Ok I'm going to assume your referring to the version of the Su-27 thats in Russian service and not anyone elses. And excluding piloting training and just looking at the aircraft.

I'm going mostly off the posted stats of both aircraft for their performance specs.

Absolute Maximum Range:
F15: 3,450 miles, Su27: 2485.48 miles
Advantage F15

Maximum Speed:
F15: Mach 2.5 , Su27: Mach 2.35
Advantage F15

Radar:
F15: AN/APG-70 X-band pulsed-Doppler radar
Su27: Flash Dance radar
Advantage F15

Weapon Hardpoints:
F15: 7, Su27: 10
Advantage Su27

Other things to note the Su-27 would appear to have a better thrust to weight ratio and is more maneuverable and the F-15 has a much better jamming/electronic countermeasure suit. Overall if it were my butt on the line I'd take the F-15, its got a much better radar/electronic warfare suit. If the Su-27 was updated with western or european avionics and weapons that would change however.

In summery my opinion is the Su-27 has better flight performance but the F-15 is a more effective killing machine because of its radar/jammers/countermeasures/warning radars/fiber towed decoy/etc.

ajaybhutani

not another eagle vs flanker thread. ........ there has already been a lot of discussion on this is last year. check the forum for MKI vs F15 AESA thread. ull find a lot of information

ajaybhutani

-this is highly dependent on the versions of F15 and SU27 we consider..
-Firstly we need to consider the fact that SU30/35/34/37 etc are all extended prototype versions of su27. and shouldnt be considered outside the su27 family.
-Secondly please mention the versions and source of your informations. ( do u intend to say that only one version of su27 family is active in RUssian air force. ).

For instance the SU34 has a ferry range of 7000km.

I'll point you to some links conflicting with ur range argument.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F-15E_Strike_Eagle
Ferry range: 2,400 miles (3,900 km)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sukhoi_Su-27
Ferry range 3,900 km 2,420 mi

- The RCS of the two is also different.

Service Seiling
SU27 Service ceiling 18,500 m 60,700 ft
F15E Service ceiling: 50,000 ft (15,000 m)

and here i m comparing the basic su27 .. with F15 E..

-Max Speed : do u know how much is the max speed of F22 ??.. It would be better to compare max speed without afterburners.

Garry

I thinkg there is nothing to add to this competent reply. For more info go and read some old posts..... here and in some other forums. Just use google and it will give you so many results on such discussion!

leib10

In an WVR dogfight, I'd say the Su-27 has the advantage due to its better flight characteristics (better thrust to weight ratio, better maneuverability, etc.) and the AA-11 Archer, which is superior in many respects to the Sidewinders being carried today. In BVR, the Eagle owns the Flanker because of the far better electronics and AMRAAM.

__________________
"The right man in the wrong place can make all the difference in the world. So wake up, Mr. Freeman. Wake up and smell the ashes." G-Man

tphuang

I think that's pretty accurate.

ajaybhutani

again it all depends upon the version you are talking about. without being specific to versions(esp for avaionics) none of this will prove any point.
furthermore i have been trying hard to find out is AMRAAM is better than R77??why/why not. And my discussions with tphuang havent given me a convincing answer yet. Maybe you can shed some light on it.

Maximus

Right on target. I agree with leibstandarte10 on this. AA-11 archer is like one decade ahead of current version of Sidewinders in service.

The Su-27 was designed to beat the F-15. AA-10 BVR missiles give it an impressive BVR capabilty but not as much as the F-15s with the AMRAAMs.
AMRAAM-120 takes a G load of upto 22Gs(as far as I know) compared to just 8Gs of the AA-10 Alamo.

However, who wins the race in a dogfight. I would go with the Flanker.

Eagle drivers generally favor the higher-speed energy fight in favor of the low-speed turning dog fight... Su-27’s high thrust and sustained turn capability give the aircraft a powerful edge in a dogfight.

Also with the high AoA the pilot can keep his cannon pointed at the adversary.

__________________
Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage.

tphuang

I don't think AA-10 is considered to be BVR. That's why the su-27sk that China has is not considered to have BVR capabilities. Although the current AA-10RE claims to have 65 KM in range. I seriously do doubt it.

As for AA-12 adder, I maintain that its effective range in a realistic scenario is not longer than earlier versions of AMRAAM. It's claimed to be 31 miles (around 50 km) in this article and most of the Taiwanese intelligence article. http://www.cndyorks.gn.apc.org/yspac...issiletest.htm
Sure, it can probably hit something 100 KM apart, but what's its real effective range. Also, what is its no-escape zone range?

The_Burning_Kid

I would take a F-15 anyday of the year. Its avionics pretty much seal the deal. It doesn't matter that the Su-27 can do all those nice tricks, the Eagle will just shoot it down while its doing one of those :p

canoe

If the poster is asking about the Su-27 I assume thats the specific aircraft hes referring to. If I ask about the F-16 then people can assume I'm referring to the F-16C/D in U.S service and not the F-16I or the F-16XL (supercruise version which never entered service).

If we start debating every prototype variation of each aircraft it will just end in a big argument with no clear answer because no one actually knows the true capabilities of alot of the prototypes given they never saw active service. Some never even had any real combat capability testing, it was all paper theory.

And in the case of some of the foreign versions theres such a huge difference between the design and capabilities and the intended role of each variation of the aircraft that its not really useful for them all to be included, if you wana debate a specific variation its probably better start a new thread for that specific model.

ajaybhutani

well .. the only person to know that when u say f16 its f16C/D is you and not others. please donot put down your assumptions in the discussion and think that evone else will adhere to it.

the ones i mentioned are in active service or the production has already started . like su30mki is in active service. su34 is in production.
Secondly its for the creator of the thread.. the real person who asked questions to decide what exact comparison is he looking for.
Thirdly dont assume that su27 vs f15 discussion is all about the prototypes you want to discuss/compare.



The way i see this thread is " a pure waste of time" as at least a dozen pages have already been devoted to this duscussion ..... doing all that again is a pure waste of time.

ajaybhutani

.. what version of AIM120 they are comparing it to ???