wnw

F-16 is said to be smaller & more agile. More suited for close up dogfights? F-15 however is said to be better for strike missions with longer reach & heavier payload. Both are said to make a good combination.

The F-15T is meant to replace the Skyhawk & not F-5. RSAF did at one time look at the possibility of operating only 2 types of aircraft but nothing concrete has come out from that. Besides, with RSAF likely to buy the F-35 once that becomes operational, it looks most likely that RSAF will be operating F-16, F-15 & F-35 in the future.

Now my 2 cents worth about the F-15T decision. I've always felt its not a good idea to be overly reliant on one source. Yes the US are our good friends but who can predict what will happen in say 10 years' time?

However having said that, on paper the F-15T is supposedly not as effective as the Rafale & the Eurofighter. However that is based on what? Simulation? Did the actually pit a F-15T against either fighter in real combat? I doubt it. AFAIK neither Rafale or Eurofighter has seen real action so it remains to be seen just how effective they are in "real life". F-15, old as it is, has seen action & it is combat proven.

I believe there are 3 reasons for the F-15T being selected.

1. Its combat track record speaks for itself.
2. Most of S'pore's hardware comes from the US, so I guess getting yet another US hardware is more compatible???
3. Boeing apparently sweetened the deal by offering precision guided ordnance, something which I believe neither Dassault or BAE offered.

As to whether our F-15T can take on M'sia's SU-30, well let's not forget that aerial combat is not simply about one to one. We're not gonna send out one fighter & say "Hey, let's rock & roll & see if you're guy can shoot down mine".

There are other factors such as war planning & strategy. Our F-15s could be downed by their AA even before they get a chance to meet the SU-30. Or their airbases could be blown sky high even before their SU-30 get to deploy. Basically anything can happen & I personally find it quite pointless to debate over one will defeat the other. This ain't a one on one boxing match ya.

JG73

It's combat proven against jets that where not up to date and hadn't been supported by AWACS like the F-15s. You already seem to know the simulation of BAE-systems. But do you know this article? http://news.scotsman.com/uk.cfm?id=673262005
For me it hasn't been surprising because F-15E isn't primely a fighter and of course doesn't have a chance against the brand new concept Eurofighter that hasn't reached full service jet!!! 2006 it will.

Like i said: With AWACS-support even an old F-4 could have made this record.

Right. Although the Eurofighter is compatible to all american weapon systems.

indianguy4u

Why have UK, Germany, Spain, Italy spend so much for EF 2000, which is not as good as F22. Cant improvements be made to EF to be comparable to raptor. Also which of these EF2000, Rafale, F35 is more capable than the other

__________________
Hala Madrid!!

JG73

The Eurofighter program is much cheaper than the F-22's. The F-22 is superior but it costs ca. 256million$, Eurofighter costs ca. 100million$ per unit. After the american gouvernment reduced the order of F-22s from 381 to 180 in december 04 the price has raised up to ca.400million $ per unit!!!

indianguy4u

An estimated 100 billion US$ on R&D & 100 million US$ per bird should be more potent than what it is. Some say even F35 is better than EF2000 is some role, which is est at 45 million US$.

jgetti

Of course it couldn't have anything to do with it being the better aircraft......

Garry

using same logic Su-30MKI lost in first stage of the tender because it was not as good as with Typhoon and F-15

JG73

F-35 is as cheap because the development profitates from the F-22 program. Some technologies are equal. And because there are a few thousand that will be produced.
Whether it's better or not isn't possible to say because it needs 10 more years untill it goes in full service.
Eurofighter is not such a crap like the american industries wants to suggest to the world.
Also you should be very sceptical to american documentations about their aircrafts because they are mostly produced or sponsored by the companies who produce them. Thats a big difference between america and europe. In America things like fighter jets are hiped up to the sky and in europe (and especially Germany) they are devil's work. "Der Spiegel" a big magazine in Germany for example wrote that EF2000 wouldn't be able to fly in winter what's totally bulls.hit. The truth was that EADS waited for temperatures that where cold enough to test it somewhere in Sweden but it has been to warm there in the year before. Now it has been tested and of course it was able to fly with out any problems. But that was concealed by "Der Spiegel".

jgetti

Just wait,, there won't be a damn thing cheap about F-35,, mark my words.

You know, for being so hiped up, people are sure reluctant to go head to head with our aircraft. Their performance speaks for themselves.

jgetti

I'm quite intimate with the F-15 and it's capabilities. If you're suggesting MKI is the better fighter, I would strongly disagree. And what exactly do you mean by better?? That's pretty vague. If you're meaning air superiority figher/interceptor/strike figher, I'm still going to strongly disagree.

Garry

Jgetti, you know more about F-15 than I do about anything. And I do not want to challenge your expertise here. I just like Su-30MKI and it looks to me quite a capable aircraft....

the more I read different forums the more I understand that it is possible to state that something is better only when the gap is really wide and clear. Otherwise it is up to a pilot/training/tacktics/ and luck

In my subjective view F-15 and Su-30MKI are close..... both have their own merits but MKI is a bit more modernized version.

jgetti

And I agree that MKI is an excellent platform. I wouldn't quite agree that it's more modernized than the T, though. F-15E, though heavier, had better engines, better pitch response, and better avionics than the A-D. Then the F-15K added an even better mission computer, more modern targeting systems, the GE F110 engines, and a better radar than the E's. Now the T will have even better avionics package, and an AESA radar variant, JHMCS, aim9x, etc. etc. etc. It'll be the deadliest thing in the american portfolio until F-22 is fully operational. We'd better get updating some of ours,, cause we're selling foreign natioins better birds that we've got!

That's one great thing about the F-15,,, we've crammed more bells and whistles in that thing than you can shake a stick at,, and there's STILL room for growth.

JG73

I only explained why F-35 costs only about 45mill $ per unit. In my opinion it's gonna get a good aircraft. But it's a long time untill it's in service. So just wait and drink tee as we say in Germany.
F-15 is also a good one. Why it lost against Su-30MKI at that practice in India could depend on (and I think that's the reason) politic games. The US military wanted to suggest to the gouvernment to buy more F-22s.

wnw

Yes politics. Just like the time when the Singapore airforce had an air exercise with the Indian airforce. The IAF claimed that their MIG21 ran circles around Singapore's F-16. Not surprising since their rival Pakistan is gonna get F-16s soon, so obviously they need to create some story to tell their ppl that "hey, be cool, the F-16 ain't that great after all". Its all about politics.

Chino

Really? Wow...

Maybe the faster the plane flies, the less manueverable it becomes. Apparently, even the MiG29 the Malaysians have are much more manueverable than the F-16. Something like being able to make tighter turning etc.