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Thread: Light Combat Aircraft(lCA) and Combat Aircraft Trainer(CAT)

  1. #61

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    Quote Originally Posted by indianguy4u
    But tphuang do recheck ur info about j10 defeating su-30mkk. Single engine medium wt AC vs Double engine heavy wt AC.

    Do post a link in english about the same if u could.
    even i m looking forward to this info from tphuang

  2. #62

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    Quote Originally Posted by indianguy4u
    But tphuang do recheck ur info about j10 defeating su-30mkk. Single engine medium wt AC vs Double engine heavy wt AC.

    Do post a link in english about the same if u could.
    F-16 block 60 is better than all variants of su-27 despite only have one engine, it's really not that hard to believe. Alright, I will pick one out, but they are mostly Chinese.

  3. #63
    Real Madrid CF Senior Contributor indianguy4u's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tphuang
    F-16 block 60 is better than all variants of su-27 despite only have one engine, it's really not that hard to believe. Alright, I will pick one out, but they are mostly Chinese.
    Dont think so.
    Hala Madrid!!

  4. #64
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    An aircraft being good or bad is not necessarily equated to it beating aircraft y. The J-10 may have certainly beaten a Sukhoi in a dogfight but one needs to know more about the conditions in which such an air to air victory happened, even in training, things are not straight forward. When it comes to looking at an aircraft, what matters most is if it satisfies all preset requirements. Until the LCA does that it will not be successful, it will be in the process of testing.

  5. #65

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sameer
    An aircraft being good or bad is not necessarily equated to it beating aircraft y. The J-10 may have certainly beaten a Sukhoi in a dogfight but one needs to know more about the conditions in which such an air to air victory happened, even in training, things are not straight forward. When it comes to looking at an aircraft, what matters most is if it satisfies all preset requirements. Until the LCA does that it will not be successful, it will be in the process of testing.
    this is an article by a person who supposedly saw the J-10 in its exercise again su-30mkk.
    http://military.china.com/zh_cn/crit.../11661108.html
    Basically, he stated that the speed and maneouverability of J-10 is visibly better despite carrying a lot more weapons. He also said that doesn't necessarily mean J-10 is better overall than su-30mkk, but just from what he can see, J-10 made su-30mkk look like su-27 vs J-8.
    I can't remember where I read it, but I believe that J-10 generally beat su-30mkk in dogfights and BVR fights (different A2A combat), but su-30mkk was better with ground attacks and precision strikes.

    As for J-10 vs su-27, it happened so long ago that I can only find some commentaries on it like this.
    http://military.china.com/zh_cn/crit.../12054472.html
    Basically, most people do state that J-10 beat su-27 5:0 in different A2A types of combats. They said that it is possible the condition of the fight had something to do with the result, but they would not know what those conditions are.

    I think there was another encounter between J-10 and su-27/J11/mkk and J-10 also finished on top. In all, there were 3 major encounters in 3 different places in China and J-10 did better in A2A combat all 3 times.

    Of course, this is a lot of circumstantial evidence. You also have to judge by the actions of Chinese government to determine things. And I don't believe every piece of news that I read.

  6. #66
    Real Madrid CF Senior Contributor indianguy4u's Avatar
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    tphuang,
    What i have understand of delta wings is that it is not favourable to manevourability, turnrates etc. Then how can j-10 out maneouver su-30mkk. Also su30 carry 8000lb of inventory, what the payload for j-10?
    Hala Madrid!!

  7. #67

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    Quote Originally Posted by indianguy4u
    tphuang,
    What i have understand of delta wings is that it is not favourable to manevourability, turnrates etc. Then how can j-10 out maneouver su-30mkk. Also su30 carry 8000lb of inventory, what the payload for j-10?
    I will be honest. I'm not a airplane expert, so I can't really explain why it has good manevourability. However, this is mentionned in sinodefense:
    "The single-engine J-10 fighter is similar in size to the Lockheed Martin F-16, with a rectangle belly air intake, low-mounted delta wings and a pair of from canard wings. The design is aerodynamically unstable, to provide a high level of agility, low drag and enhanced lift."
    I'm not sure if that is just made up stuff. As for payload, it's being mentionned anywhere from 4500KG to 8400 KG. I favour the 7000 KG number, because I've seen many instances of it and that it matches the payload of early models of F-16.

  8. #68
    Real Madrid CF Senior Contributor indianguy4u's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tphuang
    I'm not a airplane expert
    Same here. Reading & trying to understand terms .
    Hala Madrid!!

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by tphuang
    I will be honest. I'm not a airplane expert, so I can't really explain why it has good manevourability. However, this is mentionned in sinodefense:
    "The single-engine J-10 fighter is similar in size to the Lockheed Martin F-16, with a rectangle belly air intake, low-mounted delta wings and a pair of from canard wings. The design is aerodynamically unstable, to provide a high level of agility, low drag and enhanced lift."
    I'm not sure if that is just made up stuff. As for payload, it's being mentionned anywhere from 4500KG to 8400 KG. I favour the 7000 KG number, because I've seen many instances of it and that it matches the payload of early models of F-16.
    the early model f-16's had a weapons load of 4-4.5 tons while the later models (upto f-16b52)have a weapons load of 6.5 tons,i believe that the f-16b60 has 7+tons weapons load.
    check www.globalsecurity.org

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by aaaditya
    the early model f-16's had a weapons load of 4-4.5 tons while the later models (upto f-16b52)have a weapons load of 6.5 tons,i believe that the f-16b60 has 7+tons weapons load.
    check www.globalsecurity.org

    I hope you have taken into consideration the difference in tonnage terminology. There seems to be a ton of difference between american and metric tons (1000 lbs Vs 1000kgs, 1kg=2.2lbs) this could possibly account for the difference in figures regarding the f16.

    Regards,
    uss.

  11. #71

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    Quote Originally Posted by aaaditya
    the early model f-16's had a weapons load of 4-4.5 tons while the later models (upto f-16b52)have a weapons load of 6.5 tons,i believe that the f-16b60 has 7+tons weapons load.
    check www.globalsecurity.org
    http://www.aerospaceweb.org/aircraft/fighter/f16/
    This is for block 52 and it says the normal payload is 7800 KG. China defense, http://www.china-defense.com/aviatio...pforward06.htm, estimates the payload of J-10 to be 6500 to 6800 KG. It all depends on which weight you use and what you think the maximum fuel weight is. The reported values just differ way too much.

  12. #72

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    Quote Originally Posted by indianguy4u
    tphuang,
    What i have understand of delta wings is that it is not favourable to manevourability, turnrates etc. Then how can j-10 out maneouver su-30mkk. Also su30 carry 8000lb of inventory, what the payload for j-10?
    delta wings suck at low speeds but at mach 1.1 type speeds they are much better designs than conventional SU30 type of wings.

  13. #73
    Real Madrid CF Senior Contributor indianguy4u's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajaybhutani
    delta wings suck at low speeds but at mach 1.1 type speeds they are much better designs than conventional SU30 type of wings.
    At what speeds does dogfights takes place? Dont think its supersonic speeds.
    Hala Madrid!!

  14. #74

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    Quote Originally Posted by tphuang
    http://www.aerospaceweb.org/aircraft/fighter/f16/
    This is for block 52 and it says the normal payload is 7800 KG. China defense, http://www.china-defense.com/aviatio...pforward06.htm, estimates the payload of J-10 to be 6500 to 6800 KG. It all depends on which weight you use and what you think the maximum fuel weight is. The reported values just differ way too much.
    the better way to look at it is how much weight has it been tested on....

  15. #75

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    Quote Originally Posted by indianguy4u
    At what speeds does dogfights takes place? Dont think its supersonic speeds.
    dependent on circumstances. but of course the trend is towards higher speeds.

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