Thread: Light Combat Aircraft(lCA) and Combat Aircraft Trainer(CAT)

Originally Posted by tphuang

First, I doubt LCA will be better than F-16 block 50/52 that Pakistan is getting. At least, not the original variant of LCA.

Well it really depends upon the way u look at it. For instance.
1. radar F16 blk 50/52 dsnt have an AESA and detection range is similar as that of zhuk in the mig29. ( and i suppose we all know paksitan isnt getting an AESA). then of course the LCA's RCS is much smaller than that of F16.( from the BR sources). so unless of course indians decide on putting in a bad radar in the bird lca will see F16 much earlier.
2. i dont think its still yet decided that paksitan is getting AMRAAM and again integration of SD10 needs software that US wont be ready to give. So we can safely assume taht nothing near to R77 will be fired from F16 blk 52 that paksitan gets.
3. of course it will suck in range and also weight but the need for just a Point defence fighter( for LCA) and also low cost and low maintenance compensates for it ).

Secondly, it remains to be seen whether or not it will be better than su-30mkk2.

Why are u comparing it to MKK2. isnt MKI the better candidate for that. the right one to face MKK2.

Compared to J-10, I guess mach 1.8 (not even there yet) is better than mach 2.2+. 9g (not even there yet) is better than 10g. I'm pretty sure J-10 has better payload, and T/W ratio. Also, from what I read, the specs of J-10 radar is better than the Zhuk-M one proposed for LCA.[/QUOTE]
1. only the radar range isnt nough. LCA is a much smaller bird. with a much smaller RCS. unless comparison is done taking both RCS and radar detection range together we really cant say that the radar isnt good nough.. and thats why i asked u about how will J10 compare in RCS to F16. or LCA etc. furthermore power of the radar is also dependent on its antenna diameter. whats the antenna diameter for J10's radar. ?? zhuk M is i think around 640 mm( please correct me if i m wrong).

As far as speeds and agility is concerned M1.8 & M 2.2 dsnt give too much of an edge that cannot be taken care of unless of course there is a big difference in speed without afterburners. and if i can recall correctly human limit is 9g so 10 g is of no use unless chineese develop anti pressure suits like europeans are trying to develop. A big part that is missed from it all is the avionics , BVR, detection range wrt each other. etc.
And about the payload. i read that J10's payload is 4500kgs while that of LCA is 4000kgs but if we take into account the weights of the aircrafts LCA is carrying much much more per unit empty weight.

Originally Posted by ajaybhutani

1. only the radar range isnt nough. LCA is a much smaller bird. with a much smaller RCS. unless comparison is done taking both RCS and radar detection range together we really cant say that the radar isnt good nough.. and thats why i asked u about how will J10 compare in RCS to F16. or LCA etc. furthermore power of the radar is also dependent on its antenna diameter. whats the antenna diameter for J10's radar. ?? zhuk M is i think around 640 mm( please correct me if i m wrong).

As far as speeds and agility is concerned M1.8 & M 2.2 dsnt give too much of an edge that cannot be taken care of unless of course there is a big difference in speed without afterburners. and if i can recall correctly human limit is 9g so 10 g is of no use unless chineese develop anti pressure suits like europeans are trying to develop. A big part that is missed from it all is the avionics , BVR, detection range wrt each other. etc.
And about the payload. i read that J10's payload is 4500kgs while that of LCA is 4000kgs but if we take into account the weights of the aircrafts LCA is carrying much much more per unit empty weight.

other than radar range, I believe the targets engaged and tracked is also greater. But yeah, I'm not sure about the size of 1473, I'd imagine it's size would be similar to that of Zhuk-10PD since that was the other radar considered for J-10

The problem with J-10 is that it's weight has been seriously disputed. It's commonly agreed on that the maximum starting weight is 19 tonne, but the empty weight, fuel weight and normal starting weight has been seriously disputed. The payload has been mentionned from 4500Kg to 8400Kg, because the weight has been disputed to be anywhere from 6900 KG to 9750kg. At the same time, the fuel weight has also been heavily disputed. As a result, the payload and T/W ratio is widely debated. I personally think it's empty liftoff weight is closer to 6900 kg, because it's made of more composite material than F-16 (at least I read this somewhere). According to the Chinese media, the payload is around 7000KG, T/W ratio is around 1.1. I personally think 7000KG is most reasonable, because of F-16 is in the 6900 KG range and J-10 is based on the Lavi project which is based on F-16.

Low altitude top speed of J-10 is mach1.2, which is actually quite good. J-10's performance is generally compared to F-16C/D, so that should give you an idea of its effectiveness.

Originally Posted by ajaybhutani

Why are u comparing it to MKK2. isnt MKI the better candidate for that. the right one to face MKK2.

I just compared, because generation_X mentionned that lca is better than any plane in the plaaf/paf arsenal. Yeah, I wouldn't want mkk2 to face mki.

But tphuang do recheck ur info about j10 defeating su-30mkk. Single engine medium wt AC vs Double engine heavy wt AC.

Do post a link in english about the same if u could.

Originally Posted by tphuang

I just compared, because generation_X mentionned that lca is better than any plane in the plaaf/paf arsenal. Yeah, I wouldn't want mkk2 to face mki.

i dont think either of us need to take all his statements sireously..