Lord-Vastu

The world’s top Air-aces happen to be from the Luftwaffe…….what’s more..........they all happen to be famed pilots of the Messerschmitt Me -109.

Herein itself lies the testimony, that the Me -109 being produced over 35,000 times is indeed the world’s top ‘Kill Scoring’ fighter-plane. Erich Hartmann(352 kills), Gerhard Barkhorn(301 kills), Gunther Rall(275 kills) and Otto Kittel(267 kills) each have more than a 1000 kills between them.

By corollary if we were to assume that if just one-fifth of the total 35,000 + Me-109s produced scored at least one kill, that would account for 7000 kills which is far more than any other P-51, Spitfire, F-15 or MiG

The Luftwaffe’s candelstine efforts with fighting off 33,198 Spitfires, 31,163 Ilyushin Il-2s, 15,586 P-51s, 15,686 P-47s, 12,975 Hawker Hurricanes, 12,275 F6Fs, Hellcats, 12,571 F4U Corsairs and a host of other allied aircraft with just a mere 33,000 Me-109s, the backbone of the Luftwaffe only proves the real mettle of the Me – 109s as the top ‘Kill Scorer’ of WW II and probably the whole aviation history of mankind.

Lord-Vastu

At a recent air show in California, pilot Skip Holm was asked to take the Me 109 up in a mock dogfight with 2 P-51s. In the mock dogfight the 2 P-51's could not get a sight on the Me 109 because it was too maneuverable. Of course Skip was a better pilot which also made a difference.

One of the secrets of the Me109 is its wing. A unique design like no other. The Me109 used Fowler flaps and leading edge (LE) slats with a NACA 2R1 14.2 airfoil at the root so that a max lift coefficient of 2.9 could be achieved. The LE slats were used for landing and during combat maneuvers.

The P-51 and the Spitfire used a simple flap and no slats for which the max lift coefficient is 1.6 (almost one half). The Me 109 also used a forgiving airfoil. The P-51 used a NACA/NAA 45-100 laminar flow airfoil which had not been well tested and could not achieve laminar flow because of the riveted skin. With its sharp LE, the P-51 had a sharp and bad stall. As such, the Me 109 could use a smaller wing. The Me 109 had a long tail moment arm and the rudder was 50%C. As such, it could be yawed from right to left by 30 to 40 degrees to spray bullets. The P-51 could not be yawed and had to be pointed at a target. The P-51 also had a bad stall-spin characteristics from which it would often not recover. It would loose 10,000 ft of altitude in a power on stall.

With the same power in the Me109 and an empty weight of 1,700 lbs less, the climb rate of the Me109 was substantially higher that of the P-51. Its take off distance was half. The heavy gun on the Me109 shot through the engine and other guns were mounted inboard on the fuselage and shot through the prop. The P-51 and the Spitfire guns were mounted on the wing outboard of the prop. The roll inertia of the Me109 was lower allowing it to roll much much faster. Because of the fantastic handling characteristics of the Me109, the P-51 was no match for the Me 109.

The performance of the Me 109 and the Spitfire is almost the same. However, the Spitfire had an average 25-20%C plain aileron with little aerodynamic balance which, despite differential control, gave it a very heavy stick force in roll compared to the light stick force of the Me 109. With a 50% span and narrow chord, Frise, aileron, the Me109 stick forces were very low in roll. It could do a complete roll in less than 3 seconds. This was much quicker than any Allied fighter. The Me109 was more evasive than the Spitfire or the P-51 which were slow in roll and much less agile. Furthermore, the Merlin used in the Spitfire was naturally carbureted and could not operate in a negative g maneuver.

avon1944

One of the thing most pilots (British and American) liked about the P-51 was its "honest" handling characteristics! That when climbing and facing a stall, its behavior is very predictible.
While the combat record of P-51 against the Me-109 is a positive kill ratio. It wasn't until about February of 1945 did the USAAF able to put up as many fighters as the Luftwaffe, plus the Luftwaffe had GCI. Before that the Luftwaffe had the numerical edge yet, the P-51's protected the bombers very well.
The Luftwaffe's enviable record comes from the first months of the war when they face enemy pilots nor the aircraft were not competent in aerial combat. As Germany conquered Western Europe and later went into the Soviet Union. By late 1943 to the end of the war the Luftwaffe's kill ratio is negative!

I don't know why some people are so quick to not give the credit to the P-51 in obtaining air supeiority over Western Europe. It did something no other aircraft, it wrestled control of the air from the Luftwaffe, plain and simple. Gen. Eisenhower talked to the US paratroopers on June sixth, one thing he assured them, any air planes in the air were friendly. Only a few sorties were completed by the Luftwaffe on June sixth to the Normandy Beach area.
After the invasion of Europe, bases in France allowed the Spitfire, Typhoon, and P-47 to fly over Germany.

You can say what you want about the Mustang, it did the job of not only escorting the bombers, kill the interceptors but, also the "airborne gorilla warfare." It was the only aircraft that could have done it. It fought the Me-109's and Fw-190's and took control of the sky away.

Whereas the Hellcat only met the Me-109's a couple of times (invasion of southern France) it would be difficult to add this aircraft to the equation.

Adrian

leib10

You also have to take into the factor that by late 1944 most Allied pilots were far better trained than their German counterparts. They also greatly outnumbered the Germans. There's not a doubt in my mind that a rookie in a P-51 is greatly outclassed by an "alte Hase" in a 109.

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"The right man in the wrong place can make all the difference in the world. So wake up, Mr. Freeman. Wake up and smell the ashes." G-Man

Bluesman

Really, though, it all comes down to which pilot has the most solo time with butter cookies. There's simply no substitute.

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"The quickest way of ending a war is to lose it, and if one finds the prospect of a long war intolerable, it is natural to disbelieve in the possibility of victory."
- George Orwell

Officer of Engineers

Ok, let me guess. Your wife left for the weekend and there's nothing to eat but butter cookies. Go shopping, MSgt.

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Chimo

Wraith601

Most of the Corsairs and virtually the Hellcats were in the PTO and never faced the Luftwaffe.

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"We always have been, we are, and I hope that we always shall be, detested in France."
-Sir Arthur Wellesley