Thread: F-22 vs. Su-37 who would win

F-22 is definitely a kick-ass, no doubt about that. btw i read from a book saying that F-22 is stealthier than F-117 and have a RCS of a bumblebee. A program from the history channel also say this.

one raptor crashed on the runway on 12/12/04 and was badly burned. can i have the name of the pilot? oh yeah i heard that Su-37 was destroyed, is that true?

Originally Posted by flanker1992

looks like F-22 does have an advantage

The F-22's advantage goes far beyond a low RCS. It is the first AC designed from the ground up as a supersonic stealthy fighter. Superior kinematic performance plus stealth. Supercruise gives a huge tactical advantage over any opponent who can only operate at supersonic speeds for a few minutes before he is bingo fuel. The Raptor pilot can choose when and how to enter the engagement, and he can break off at will to re-enter under more favorable conditions if necessary.

The APG-77 radar and integrated avionics takes the task of analysing the data away from the pilot and allows him to concentrate on the battlespace. The processing power of two cray supercomputers means that the data is collated and presented to the pilot in real time, NCTR technology in the APG-77 means he knows what his opponent is and what weapons he is carrying before the opponent even knows the Raptor is there. The radar operates as a communications, IFF, tracking, and targeting system simultaneously, including high resolution SAR imaging for ground attack modes. Day or night, in any weather conditions, with passive and active LPI modes, frequency and beam agile, as the situation warrants.

The Raptor can close undetected with the enemy to much closer ranges, which means the pilot doesn't have to take missile shots at RMax. This greatly improves pk, since the motor is still burning when it gets to the target. Supermaneuverability plus HOBS heaters takes care of anything in close.

Very simply, the Raptor is a total package that has no equal.

Here is an article from this month's C4ISR Journal about the ISR capabilities of the Raptor.

By MICHAEL FABEY
DefenseNews.com

Touted as the world’s next-generation stealthy jet fighters and attack aircraft, the F/A-22 Raptor and F-35 Joint Strike Fighter (JSF) will gather battlefield information as well.

The sensor suites on the two planes will turn them into information sponges, promising useful performance as fast-moving intelligence-gathering, surveillance and reconnaissance (ISR) platforms with the datalinks to send real time data to ground troops.

Like the Raptor’s and JSF’s active electronically scanned array (AESA) radars, the fighters’ other ISR sensors are incorporated into the plane, the wiring laced throughout their wings and body. This helps keep the aircraft stealthy.

“What the F/A-22 offers that no other fighter aircraft has is a huge amount of processing power linked to an airframe designed for an embedded antenna,” said Loren Thompson, vice president of the Lexington Institute, an Arlington, Va., think tank.

The Raptor combines the ability to pick up electromagnetic emissions across a broad spectrum — from radio waves to infrared light — with a pair of powerful onboard computers with a vast library of signal patterns. This allows the aircraft to collect, process and identify signals in a way no other fighter aircraft can, Thompson said.

“No sensor system is better in aperture, power supply or field of view than the platform carrying it,” he said. The Raptor “will never have the field of view of a satellite and never be able to eavesdrop with the depth of a Rivet Joint.”

The JSF’s ISR abilities will closely match the Raptor’s, said Jon Waldrop, Lockheed’s international programs director.

Planning for embedded sensors began early in the Raptor’s two-decade gestation. In a 1995 report, “Concurrency and Risk of the F-22 Program,” the Defense Science Board Task Force cited “multiple (15-20) sources of passive surveillance” planned for the Raptor.

“The passive surveillance system includes many stressing performance requirements,” the report said. “Most are beyond anything previously accomplished on any airborne platform, regardless of size.”

Today, Goodson said, the sensor suite is almost as powerful as that of many advanced electronic intelligence (ELINT) gathering aircraft, for signal identification capability and pinpointing subjects with precision.

“The nontraditional ISR idea grew from the fact that the F/A-22 sensor suite is so powerful,” said Ray Goodson, senior manager of the Integrated Warfare Development Center (IWDC) at Lockheed Martin Aeronautics’ Fort Worth, Tex., facility, in an undated release on the Web site of the company, the prime contractor for both planes.

“The question became: Why don’t we use it to augment some of the ELINT collection required deep within high-threat or ‘denied-access areas,’ seeking out those elusive signals.”

The U.S. military’s signals-gathering aircraft include the U-2, E-8 Joint STARS, E-3 AWACS, RC-135 Rivet Joint and EP-3E Aries. But the most famous was likely the SR-71 Blackbird, the exotic 2,000-mile-an-hour spy plane that was retired in 1997. While the other aircraft generally collect their data at some distance from the combat zone, the SR-71 was sent streaking directly over North Vietnam, sucking up electromagnetic emissions during a three-minute transit of the narrow country.

These Blackbird missions could become a template for the stealthy, supercruising F/A-22. Analysts say small fleets of Raptors or JSFs could be sent deep into enemy territory and, because of their stealthiness, sop up a great deal of intelligence without being noticed.

During, or more likely, after the overflight, selected information could be downloaded to ground troops and commanders.

Why the Secret?

Why hasn’t the Air Force talked about this before? They’ve apparently been happy to keep some of the Raptor’s capabilities quiet. Thompson said senior U.S. Air Force officials had told him that 60 percent of the F/A-22’s key warfighting features are too secret to discuss.

Another hidden capability is the AESA radar’s ability to blind enemy sensors with blasts of electromagnetic energy.

But the Raptor is under fire for its high price tag — about a quarter-billion dollars with development costs, perhaps half that for flyaway costs — and its proposed production run has been slashed from about 750 to around 180 planes. Under the circumstances, the plane’s true ISR capability has become more of a selling point.

The embedded-antenna technology may be further developed for the next generation of unmanned aircraft. Lately, the Air Force has started to look to unmanned aircraft such as the Predator or Global Hawk for such ISR work.

Richard Aboulafia, Teal vice president of analysis, wrote in a February report, “The Last Great Decade,” about the fighter market that the F-35 technology could point the way for future unmanned combat aerial vehicles.

Originally Posted by raptor1992

one raptor crashed on the runway on 12/12/04 and was badly burned. can i have the name of the pilot? oh yeah i heard that Su-37 was destroyed, is that true?

Why do you want to know the name of the pilot?

Yes, one of the SU-37's crashed during the '99 Paris airshow.

Are you and flanker1992 one and the same?

yes i'm also flanker1992. in a book i read i stated that F-22 have infared reduction on it's nozzels and have low noise and low turbulence. i found that to be true because i've been to edwards air force base and found the F-22 to be quieter. lower turbulence as well. it can also make Mach 2.3-2.5 @ +65000 ft max. i now think F-22 is the dominant fighter.

and sometimes a single raptor go against 4 flanker and won