F-22 vs. Su-37 who would win

**canoe** · 31 May 06, 04:38

Originally Posted by JCSVT

I would just ignore Vadim. His fisrt 2 posts on this forum have been filled with anti-Raptor nonsense that everyone knows is not true.

Also, I agree with the Canoe on the defeat of the Cobra manuever. The F-22 will go vertical quicker and faster than the Su-37 or it can utilize it's ability for constant high AoA. The F-22 could do the "helicopter" and slow down to almost zero airspeed all while pointing it's nose at the Su-37 when it's performing the Cobra, following it wherever it goes.

Of course this would not be the best thing to do.

Well if I was in an F-22 that senario wouldn't happen. Soon as I indentified the hostile on radar I'd close in and fire a couple AIM-120's off at the edge of the NEZ and break off. The Su-37's warning would be a couple of inbound missiles showing on his radar giving him a few seconds to decide what to do.

**samardza** · 31 May 06, 05:27

Quote:
* Current Russian fighters are already on par with America’s best fighter, the F-15. Europe's and Russia's newest class of fighters will surpass the F-15; they are set to roll off production lines by 2005
* At least three foreign aircraft threaten to surpass the F-15’s performance in the near future: the French Rafale, the Eurofighter 2000 and the Russian Su-35. Some foreign aircraft are already at parity with the F-15
* Nations are already denying America access to airspace around the globe by obtaining low-cost, but sophisticated, surface-to-air missile systems
* Highly capable surface-to-air missile (SAM) systems pose a formidable challenge to the F-15’s survivability. Advanced SAM systems, because of their relatively low cost, are a quick and easy way for countries to modernize their air defense systems
* Estimated twenty-one countries will possess the most advanced systems by 2005

Is someone forgetting that the F-15 is 30 year old technology?

**Defcon 6** · 31 May 06, 08:16

The raptor is stealth. The F-22 would win. Because unfortunately as the enemies of the U.S have already found, if you can't track it, you can't shoot it down unless you have a visual lock which is a joke.

**HistoricalDavid** · 31 May 06, 12:03

From what orifice was this 'quote' pulled from?

Originally Posted by samardza

Quote:
* Current Russian fighters are already on par with America’s best fighter, the F-15. Europe's and Russia's newest class of fighters will surpass the F-15; they are set to roll off production lines by 2005

The latest Su-30MKI is probably on a par with the F-15.

But a fully upgraded F-15X (for want of a better designation) would easily outperform it.

But I remind you that the F-15 is not America's best fighter.

* At least three foreign aircraft threaten to surpass the F-15’s performance in the near future: the French Rafale, the Eurofighter 2000 and the Russian Su-35. Some foreign aircraft are already at parity with the F-15

In some roles, yes. In some no. Just hope that they don't upgrade it to an 'ultimate' version.

* Nations are already denying America access to airspace around the globe by obtaining low-cost, but sophisticated, surface-to-air missile systems
* Highly capable surface-to-air missile (SAM) systems pose a formidable challenge to the F-15’s survivability. Advanced SAM systems, because of their relatively low cost, are a quick and easy way for countries to modernize their air defense systems

What, like Iraq in 1991? The densest air defence system in the world?

Is someone forgetting that the F-15 is 30 year old technology?

So is the Sukhoi Su-27 and all its derivatives.

Is someone forgetting the existence of the F-22A?

**~~Captain Drunk~~** · 31 May 06, 13:33

Originally Posted by HistoricalDavid

What, like Iraq in 1991? The densest air defence system in the world?

They weren't and never were even before. Most of their Airforce needed much more structuring after being badly damaged with their war with Iran.

**HistoricalDavid** · 31 May 06, 14:18

Sorry, I was referring specifically to SAM systems.

Iraq had about 16,000 missiles at the beginning, I believe.

The Soviet Union had more but was obviously a lot larger.

**Bill** · 31 May 06, 18:04

Originally Posted by canoe

My beef with that diagram is why is the ememy plane flying level after the Sukhoi goes vertical. If I were the pilot I'd either follow it in the vertical climb and lay on the guns as the Sukhoi loses speed or break into a side loop and come retaining most of my energy behind the Sukhoi when it levels out from a near standstill.

My beef with that chart is that it's ridiculous.

ANY A/C can do a tailslide.

Yes, that's ANY A/C. The other term for 'tailslide' is stall, and fellas, that AINT good!

**Archer** · 31 May 06, 18:16

Why does this thread exist? The comparison itself is ridiculous, and unfair to the Su-37.

**JCSVT** · 31 May 06, 18:36

Originally Posted by Archer

Why does this thread exist?

Because some people like to drag out the issue and pretend the Su-37 is the greatest figter because it can do the Cobra and Kulbit all while using rear-firing misiles.

**Archer** · 31 May 06, 18:57

The rear firing missiles are a paper weapon for now- they were never implemented on any production fighter. And they are WVR, fat use they'd be against a Mach 4+ BVR Aim-120 D.

**urmomma158** · 31 May 06, 20:48

Originally Posted by samardza

Quote:
* Current Russian fighters are already on par with America’s best fighter, the F-15. Europe's and Russia's newest class of fighters will surpass the F-15; they are set to roll off production lines by 2005
* At least three foreign aircraft threaten to surpass the F-15’s performance in the near future: the French Rafale, the Eurofighter 2000 and the Russian Su-35. Some foreign aircraft are already at parity with the F-15
* Nations are already denying America access to airspace around the globe by obtaining low-cost, but sophisticated, surface-to-air missile systems
* Highly capable surface-to-air missile (SAM) systems pose a formidable challenge to the F-15’s survivability. Advanced SAM systems, because of their relatively low cost, are a quick and easy way for countries to modernize their air defense systems
* Estimated twenty-one countries will possess the most advanced systems by 2005

Is someone forgetting that the F-15 is 30 year old technology?

Yes but that link is for the Raptor not the eagle pay attention.

**Vadim** · 31 May 06, 22:39

1) What use is the raptor's 11 g force frame if the pilot blacks out by then?

2) The manuvers the Su 37 can do (NOT the Cobra) were designed for combat.

3) AGAIN the Raptor is not stealth to the Russian radar systems. Heh, the U2 was apperantly unreachable to the SAM systems of Russia

. An F117 lost to a jet built in the Vietnam days...

3) G load of Su 37 is 12 if it is THAT important...

4)The S300- "The system consists of the 6AN6E 'Big Bird' phased array surveillance radar, the 36N6E 'Flop-Lid' phased array multi-function engagement radar capable of tracking stealth targets." 90 km guaranteed hit range, projectiles moving at 10000km/h, from 5m above the ground to 30000m. I am sure they used this technology on the Su 37 too.

This is 1980's technology by the way...

5)"F-22 Raptor - Air Dominance for the 21st Century

No fighter in the world comes close to matching the F-22. By every measure" If this is the kind of site you research at, you need to rethink before you reply.

**tphuang** · 31 May 06, 23:01