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About LinkBacksAnywhere from 50% to 100% of the previous AIM-9 of around 18km's. In the range of 30-40km's. I'd like to see the SU-47 pull 50G's and escape AIM-X's seeker with -/+90' off-boresight.Originally Posted by Captain Drunk
RCS is a representation of the size of the target adjusted to a standardized shape, and dBsm is the ratio of radiated power returned to the emitter per square meter.
They are related, but not exactly the same thing.
"We will go through our federal budget – page by page, line by line – eliminating those programs we don’t need, and insisting that those we do operate in a sensible cost-effective way." -President Barack Obama 11/25/2008
Anywhere from 50% to 100% of the previous AIM-9 of around 18km's. In the range of 30-40km's. I'd like to see the SU-47 pull 50G's and escape AIM-X's seeker with -/+90' off-boresight.
Last edited by Dago; 30 May 06, at 20:59.
Mostly I was talking about the Su-30MKI, which I think is fair considering it's the best Sukhoi in service right now.
Considering a US war is even less unlikely with India than with China, substitute 'MKI' for 'MKK', which I believe is somewhat inferior.
Which I find highly implausible, unless you want to explain turning the aircraft's underside towards the radar will help reduce its RCS, even for the duration of the airspeed-killing manoeuvre...?and second... that was in response to the Mig-21 using the Cobra to evade radar detection...
What use is there talking about an combat manoeuvre - according to you - "in general"? If there's not an enemy against which to compare, then it's not really air combat at all. It's an airshow trick. We've gone around in a circle, it seems!he was merely giving an example how the Cobra can be useful in general... what did you think he was saying??? A Mig-21 using the Cobra to evade the F-22????
Alright, compare it against the F-15, F-16 and F-18, any recent versions. I still can't see how airshow tricks will help you, though I can imagine them being sometimes outturned in a gunfight by an MKI.
Last edited by HistoricalDavid; 30 May 06, at 22:17.
How the **** will a cobra work if radars are scanning you from all over and how long can you keeep doing it. Has anyone ever thought of that.
LOL, you aren't going to fool AWACS. It would probably have been tracking that Su-xx for the past 200 miles before the planes were in visual range of each other.How the **** will a cobra work if radars are scanning you from all over and how long can you keeep doing it. Has anyone ever thought of that.
I'm just wondering why a cobra would make you invisible in the first place!
Sorry for bringing this thread up by the way but again, people who still think the raptor is "stealth" total BS. It is OLD and a waste of money compared to new Russian radar systems and even the not so new S300 SAM missile platform (which can hit targets as low as 5 meters above the ground) A patriot can only hit at 20m. It is true that the Cobra is an Airshow trick but the 37 can pull off MANY other stunts that are not so airshow... As for the Mach 2.4, the Su 37 has the same speed as the Raptor, even faster at altitude, has a longer range, same practical ceiling. And max g-force on a raptor is 9.5 not 11.
Max speed is almost never achieved in combat status. However, the F-22 will be able to use the speed envelope all the way up to Mach 1.72 without afterburner unlike the Su-37 which can only cruise at high subsonic speeds. The Su-37 has nowhere near the supersonic manueverability as the Raptor. Same practical celiing, I doubt it. And as I've said before, the Su-37 has nowhere near the computing power of the F-22.
And about the stealth, how is it old? It has been constantly evolving just like the radar systems you mentioned. Yes, the Russian radar may be able to detect the F-22 in close range but by then it's too late.
From what I've read, the thing about the MiG's going invisible on the F-15's radar was because they stopped momentarily in the air and the F-15's were using pulse-doppler radars. As you can see if you know how they work, they work by using the movement and shift of the aircraft to detect and target it. But that trick won't work on the AESA-type radars.
It doesn't work on PD radars either. There are filtering algorithms that can account for a target entering the notch, assuming the target was being tracked prior to the notch manouver. And the tactic depends on a single opponent, no AWACS, etc...IOW, the story is a bunch of BS.
"We will go through our federal budget – page by page, line by line – eliminating those programs we don’t need, and insisting that those we do operate in a sensible cost-effective way." -President Barack Obama 11/25/2008
Typical Rusky face it you lost the cold war the Raptor is stealth. Don't let the shape fool you.
http://www.f22-raptor.com/technology/stealth.html
* Radar signature approximately the size of a bumblebee, thereby avoiding detection by the most sophisticated enemy air defense systems
* Signatures/emissions of sound, turbulence, and heat that can aid detection are reduced
* Requires no direct assistance from electronic support aircraft that may be more easily detected
* Includes planform alignment of the wing and tail edges, radar-absorbing sawtoothed surfaces, an engine face that is concealed by a serpentine inlet duct, "stealthy" coating cockpit design to minimize the usually substantial radar return of pilot’s helmet
* Through internal weapons placement, the F-22 eliminates multiple surface features that could be detected by enemy radar
Not old YF22=1991 and Raptor =1995 or97. Your S300 is from the 80's The Raptor is made for double digit sams and any future threat.So are the UCAV'sIt is OLD and a waste of money compared to new Russian radar systems and even the not so new S300 SAM missile platform (which can hit targets as low as 5 meters above the ground) A patriot can only hit at 20m.
http://www.f22-raptor.com/technology/index.html* Current Russian fighters are already on par with America’s best fighter, the F-15. Europe's and Russia's newest class of fighters will surpass the F-15; they are set to roll off production lines by 2005
* At least three foreign aircraft threaten to surpass the F-15’s performance in the near future: the French Rafale, the Eurofighter 2000 and the Russian Su-35. Some foreign aircraft are already at parity with the F-15
* Nations are already denying America access to airspace around the globe by obtaining low-cost, but sophisticated, surface-to-air missile systems
* Highly capable surface-to-air missile (SAM) systems pose a formidable challenge to the F-15’s survivability. Advanced SAM systems, because of their relatively low cost, are a quick and easy way for countries to modernize their air defense systems
* Estimated twenty-one countries will possess the most advanced systems by 2005
http://aviationnow.com/avnow/search/...F07073news.xmlThe UAV also lacks the endurance of the Predator or Global Hawk UAVs. Nonetheless, the aircraft's ability to "dwell" over a target area for several hours is highly valued. Its surveillance package options include an LPI synthetic aperture radar salvaged from the Navy's A-12 program as well as infrared and electro-optical sensors (AW&ST June 4, 2001, p. 30). The Air Force has had a long-standing requirement for a very-low-observable, high-altitude UAV that can fly 1,000 naut. mi. to a target, penetrate modern air defenses such as the SA-10, SA-12 and SA-20 anti-aircraft missile systems, loiter for at least 8 hr. and return to base.
http://www.aviationnow.com/avnow/sea...2F03224wna.xmlTHE UPGRADED F/A-22 air-to-ground capability will produce a stealth aircraft able to "defeat modern surface-to-air missiles" like the SA-20 or S-400 family and to track and attack moving targets, he said. It also will be a key to cruise missile defense because with super-cruise speed it can position itself for both a "first and second shot," Roche revealed, which is difficult "because a cruise missile can come from any direction."
And maeuverability will count how much, the Raptor has the highest off boresight fighting capability not to mention it will kill the SU 37 at BVR.It is true that the Cobra is an Airshow trick but the 37 can pull off MANY other stunts that are not so airshow... As for the Mach 2.4, the Su 37 has the same speed as the Raptor, even faster at altitude, has a longer range, same practical ceiling. And max g-force on a raptor is 9.5 not 11.
Correcting you is a waste of time. Beware http://i4.tinypic.com/10ygz1j.jpg
The Raptor is invisble to AWACS.
My beef with that diagram is why is the ememy plane flying level after the Sukhoi goes vertical. If I were the pilot I'd either follow it in the vertical climb and lay on the guns as the Sukhoi loses speed or break into a side loop and come retaining most of my energy behind the Sukhoi when it levels out from a near standstill.also... the Cobra...
not substitute the enemy plane as a missile tailing you... all of a sudden, the Cobra manuver becomes mighty useful...
and the Kulbit...
and also the Hook manuver is the fight winner manuver that probably any pilots on this board will be aware... and the Sukhoi can derive the Hook from the Cobra, making it one lethal move...
and... the Cobra manuver was never claimed by the Russians as a combat manuver!!! it is only considered a combat manuver by Nato/Western nations...
oh and lol... a F-15 doing a Kulbit... i'm still having a laugh over that...
Last edited by canoe; 31 May 06, at 01:42.
Why is the raptor being stealth total BS. The U.S airforce has stated on the record to the press its the stealthiest aircraft they have in inventory.
And the G-limit on the Raptors airframe is more then 9.5, it maybe limited to 9.5 by software to prevent the pilot from blacking out but the airframe can handle alot more then 9.5.
And thus far SAM performance against American stealth aircraft is pretty unimpressive. I've heard alot of Russian claims over the years and most of the time they turn out the be untrue when the U.S runs into the Russian systems.
Last edited by canoe; 31 May 06, at 01:40.
I would just ignore Vadim. His fisrt 2 posts on this forum have been filled with anti-Raptor nonsense that everyone knows is not true.
Also, I agree with the Canoe on the defeat of the Cobra manuever. The F-22 will go vertical quicker and faster than the Su-37 or it can utilize it's ability for constant high AoA. The F-22 could do the "helicopter" and slow down to almost zero airspeed all while pointing it's nose at the Su-37 when it's performing the Cobra, following it wherever it goes.
Of course this would not be the best thing to do.
Last edited by JCSVT; 31 May 06, at 03:41.
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