Gliders in special operations

**Red Seven** · 22 Jun 11,, 12:23

Can you think of any modern-day special ops application where the use of gliders might make sense? Or is that like saying we should bring back the flintlock? I've always been impressed by the gliders capability--in spite of the risks--of bringing a fully equipped fighting force directly onto the objective silently, with no need to shed parachutes or form up prior to attack.

I suspect the risks outweigh the possible benefits but I'd be interested to hear some thoughts.

**Mihais** · 22 Jun 11,, 12:42

Gliding today is much improved over what it was in WW2(or it should be),just as parachuting is not what it was during Crete or Market Garden.
I suppose we're talking SF insertion here,against an enemy that's poor on radar tech or coverage.I presume it could be of use if you manage to increase the range .A glider could also carry vehicles,for instant ground mobility as well as any heavy equipment.On the other hand if it goes south you lose the entire team.Parachuting on the other hand allows today to be ready for action very fast and its not that imprecise.A mix of both paratroopers and gliders could bring the best of both worlds,but that's dependent on the mission.

**USSWisconsin** · 22 Jun 11,, 16:09

Originally Posted by Mihais

Gliding today is much improved over what it was in WW2(or it should be),just as parachuting is not what it was during Crete or Market Garden.
I suppose we're talking SF insertion here,against an enemy that's poor on radar tech or coverage.I presume it could be of use if you manage to increase the range .A glider could also carry vehicles,for instant ground mobility as well as any heavy equipment.On the other hand if it goes south you lose the entire team.Parachuting on the other hand allows today to be ready for action very fast and its not that imprecise.A mix of both paratroopers and gliders could bring the best of both worlds,but that's dependent on the mission.

Wouldn't helicopters make gliders obsolete on a modern battlefield? (perhaps useful because they are quieter?)

**Albany Rifles** · 22 Jun 11,, 18:00

Too slow and too much radar cross section. If you are going to make it stealthy (think of THAT cost) just go PAVE LOW or call in Nightstalkers.

**dave lukins** · 22 Jun 11,, 18:20

I'm sure the use of Batwings have been tested to great advantage. The problem of using gliders in say Afghanistan is noise through the air and as they would be used mostly at night noise travels further. Then there is the problem of landing and disposing of the glider..not too easy in A'stan. Batwings on the other hand can be deployed miles away from the landing zone with minimum noise and detection. However they do it it seems to be working fine so far as our SF are having great success of late.

**gunnut** · 22 Jun 11,, 18:32

I'm think about the power source. Gliders don't just glide all the way to the target by themselves, expecially at night with minimal updraft. Something has to tow them. That would negate the noise advantage of a silent glider.

The original concept of the glider was to deliver troops in concentration. Parachute drops would scatter the troops. The glider could deliver intact units plus some heavier equipment. We have helicopters now to do that.

There might be some very niche jobs that could be done by gliders, but I can't think of any right now.

**Yak** · 22 Jun 11,, 23:58

Gliders have been overtaken by progressing technology (helicopters, HAHO parachuting). Insertion of troops for an SF tasking by glider would assume an open area suitable for landing some distance from the objective, followed by a approach to the task.
A HAHO approach will bring your troops closer to the objective with stealth (Assuming limited opposing poor radar coverage) without requiring the landing site.
Helicopters can achieve insertion at a distance from an objective (Unless you wish to go ugly early) and through deception measures, mask the insertion.

**Skywatcher** · 23 Jun 11,, 01:31

I suppose that as part of the follow up stage to the initial insertion by HALO or airmobile assets, you could use the glider to drop some sort of 'heavy' equipment like a M8 Buford or something that couldn't be paradropped or transported by helicopter or fixed wing transports for whatever reason. Though that would necessitate suppressing any hostile IADS and air superiority.

And finding a glider of that size.

**Chogy** · 23 Jun 11,, 14:44

Yes, the helicopter has supplanted the glider.

If the D-Day planners had access to 200 Chinooks, the airborne troops would have been inserted neatly into critical locations, and would have arrived with unit integrity and firepower.

I'm not currently seeing any real use for gliders, but who knows? Perhaps at some point, it'll be applicable again.

**gunnut** · 23 Jun 11,, 18:35

"Snake" Plissken was inserted into Manhattan in a glider to rescue POTUS.

**Red Seven** · 23 Jun 11,, 18:43

Originally Posted by gunnut

"Snake" Plissken was inserted into Manhattan in a glider to rescue POTUS.

How did you know I was thinking of Snake Plissken when I started this thread?

Now I'm thinking about Adrienne Barbeau.

(who still looks pretty freakin good, BTW)

**Mihais** · 23 Jun 11,, 20:20

Gents,if I read R7 right,he wasn't talking Operation Varsity Reloaded,but mere spec-ops.Yep,heli's are great,Osprey's are also great.But gliders could be of use to supplement the personnel launched by HAHO.Definetely we're talking about a niche here,but at least in theory it's interesting.

**Red Seven** · 24 Jun 11,, 22:34

Originally Posted by Mihais

Gents,if I read R7 right,he wasn't talking Operation Varsity Reloaded,but mere spec-ops.Yep,heli's are great,Osprey's are also great.But gliders could be of use to supplement the personnel launched by HAHO.Definetely we're talking about a niche here,but at least in theory it's interesting.

Rog that, you read me 5 by 5. In certain circumstances, with vastly improved technology, night vision etc, glider insertions of small SOF teams. I'm obviously thinking of very limited applications, but a modern glider with the capability of delivering 25 fully equipped operators in silence, landing almost on top of the objective ala Eben Emael. And the higher the release the longer the flight. I know of HAHO or HALO jumps where the para can jump in friendly territory and either steer or "skydive" across the enemy border, but I'm talking a coup de main. Even "quiet" helos are noisy.