APG-81 Corporate Video

**NUS** · 25 May 11,, 08:27

Originally Posted by drhuy

and those who are much more likely to engage in a fight with USAF than Russia in future

Only Russia and Kazakhstan have Mig-31. Su-34 is Russia's only.

**drhuy** · 25 May 11,, 08:31

Originally Posted by NUS

Only Russia and Kazakhstan have Mig-31. Su-34 is Russia's only.

did u see I wrote Mig-25/31. Besides, Syria (aka Iran) tried to get Mig-31 too. What do you think those Russian salespeople would say to their customer? "Our planes are great but if you happen to find yourself in a war with uncle sam, dont use them". Great selling point huh

**NUS** · 25 May 11,, 08:39

Originally Posted by drhuy

did u see I wrote Mig-25/31. Besides, Syria (aka Iran) tried to get Mig-31 too. What do you think those Russian salespeople would say to their customer? "Our planes are great but if you happen to find yourself in a war with uncle sam, dont use them". Great selling point huh

I suspect Rosoboronexport will be happy to sell downgraded version of Mig-31 to any customer. But chances for customer to get a new upgraded version of Mig-31 are zero, even if customer do find a job for them.

**drhuy** · 25 May 11,, 08:41

Originally Posted by NUS

I suspect Rosoboronexport will be happy to sell downgraded version of Mig-31 to any customer. But chances for customer to get a new upgraded version of Mig-31 are zero, even if customer do find a job for them.

of course, I knew that, so...?

**NUS** · 25 May 11,, 08:46

Originally Posted by drhuy

of course, I knew that, so...?

Skywatcher said it will be difficult for upgraded Mig-31 to cope with F-35 radar. I said there is no need for this version of Mig-31 to do it. Is it clear now?

**drhuy** · 25 May 11,, 08:47

Originally Posted by NUS

Skywatcher said it will be difficult for upgraded Mig-31 to cope with F-35 radar. I said there is no need for this version of Mig-31 to do it. Is it clear now?

No, you said "Why would supersonic interceptor and a frontline bomber fight with F-22 and F-35?" and now I hope you have the answer.

**NUS** · 25 May 11,, 08:56

Originally Posted by drhuy

No, you said "Why would supersonic interceptor and a frontline bomber fight with F-22 and F-35?" and now I hope you have the answer.

Yeah, if you have nothing else left, sure, why not? Just don't expect any performance against tagrets he was not designed to fight.

**drhuy** · 25 May 11,, 08:58

Originally Posted by NUS

Yeah, if you have nothing else left, sure, why not? Just don't expect any performance against tagrets he was not designed to fight.

I expect nothing

**GGTharos** · 25 May 11,, 13:03

Originally Posted by NUS

The problem is in a scenario in your head. For some strange reason you all assume a group of AWACS-lead stealth fighters against single unprotected bomber. I.e. Lybia or Iraq.

The problem is that you don't realize that I don't need a realistic scenario to compare aircraft. You've taken the question and turned it into something it wasn't. I could compare a P-51 with PAK-FA if I want.

Su-34 mission is a ground work. If bomber is doing his mission without proper fighter cover,

... the same fighter cover that can't follow it into deep strike missions?

then something went horribly wrong long before it can meet any air threat. Same goes for Mig-31 who's targets are big and slow and can't avoid his 300+km range missiles.

MiG-31's are capable of intercepting any threat, be it a cruise missile, B-52, or F-15E.

Do the words "home-on-jamming" rings a bell in your head? What you said might work against single target without HOJ AA missiles, but against a proper group of adversaries any attempt to jam is just a "kill me faster!" invitation.

Wow, you must play a lot of falcon 4 to know all that

How's 'Home on Jam' going to be smarter than the radar that just got DECM'ed?

And what if enemy has AWACS too?

An awacs against a stealth fighter? Last time an F-22 and and AWACS and escort met up in red flag, the AWACS - and the escort - didn't know what hit them.

**GGTharos** · 25 May 11,, 13:05

Originally Posted by NUS

By the way...

If this is true, then looks like i was right in this discussion.
a) AESA can be jammed.

I don't see why anyone would think you can't jam it. You just need really up-to-date equipment - older jammers probably aren't agile enough to cut it.

b) If airplane-based limited in size and power radar can do it, then ground based radars can do it even easier.

Ground based radars have better things to do than trying to jam you - like guiding SAMs to shoot down your wingmen and hiding from your HARMs.

**Chogy** · 25 May 11,, 13:33

HOJ modes are always a "last resort" because the likelihood of an intercept by the missile are pretty low. In training, if a missile or illuminating radar enters "HOJ", the shot is usually called invalid. This is because range is difficult if not impossible to determine, and the intercept geometry is screwed up.

**GGTharos** · 25 May 11,, 13:47

Good explanation, Chogy.
I recall a (fairly, but not really) recent 'update' to the F-16 FCS included not invalidating a shot if the radar enters HoJ a short time after the missile is pickled (ie. you pickle, you get jammed before the missile leaves the rail, the launch was aborted. With the update it should launch with last known range data).

Originally Posted by Chogy

HOJ modes are always a "last resort" because the likelihood of an intercept by the missile are pretty low. In training, if a missile or illuminating radar enters "HOJ", the shot is usually called invalid. This is because range is difficult if not impossible to determine, and the intercept geometry is screwed up.

**Jimmy** · 27 May 11,, 03:49

Originally Posted by NUS

And what if enemy has AWACS too?

I'll out-AWACS anybody else's AWACS.

**NUS** · 27 May 11,, 05:38

Originally Posted by GGTharos

The problem is that you don't realize that I don't need a realistic scenario to compare aircraft. You've taken the question and turned it into something it wasn't. I could compare a P-51 with PAK-FA if I want.

Whatever. But what's the point?

... the same fighter cover that can't follow it into deep strike missions?

I don't understand what are you talking about. Why would fighter cover could not follow bomber?

MiG-31's are capable of intercepting any threat, be it a cruise missile, B-52, or F-15E.

Yes, tank can sink a submarine. Under certain conditions. So what?

I do admit, i don't know much about how HOJ works.

An awacs against a stealth fighter? Last time an F-22 and and AWACS and escort met up in red flag, the AWACS - and the escort - didn't know what hit them.

Was F-22 jamming someone at the same time? If he did, it would compromise his stealth, that's the point i'm trying to make.

**Jimmy** · 27 May 11,, 06:23

No, it wouldn't compromise his stealth! Great, now you know there's SOMETHING out there that can jam you. Maybe you can somehow identify that it's an F-22, but you STILL don't know where he is...and oh by the way he probably already took a shot at you. Good luck evading when you don't even know where to look.

Stealth (low observable) just means harder to see. How does jamming you compromise that? Besides HOJ, since that's been hammered.