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Reply With QuoteIts a good plane !!
The Thread has been started as a platform for a meaningful discussion on the LCA Tejas.
General Specifications-
* Crew: 1
* Length: 13.20 m
* Wingspan: 8.20 m
* Height: 4.40 m
* Wing area: 38.4 m²
* Empty weight: 6,560 kg
* Loaded weight: 10,500 kg
* Max takeoff weight: 13,300 kg
* Powerplant: 1 × General Electric F404-GE-IN20 turbofan
o Dry Thrust: 54.3 kN
o Wet Thrust: 88 kN
* Internal fuel capacity: 2,458 kg
* External fuel capacity: 2x 1,200 litre drop tank at inboard, 1x 725 litre drop tank under fuselage
Performance-
* Maximum speed: Mach 1.8 at 15,000 m
* Range: 3,000 km (1,840 mi) without refueling
* Service ceiling: 15,250 m
* Wing loading: 221.4 kg/m² (45.35 lb/ft²)
* Thrust/weight: 0.91
* g-limits: +9/−3.5 g
Country of Origin-India
Developers-DRDO - Defense Reasearch And Development Organisation,HAL- Hindustan Aeronautics Limited.
RADAR-Hybrid MMR radar (Israeli EL/M-2032 back end processor with Indian Parts)
Variants-
LCA Tejas Mk-1( Single- Seater)(Air-Force Version)
LCA Tejas Mk-1( Single- Seater)(Naval Version)
LCA Tejas Trainer(Air-Force Version)
LCA Tejas Trainer(Naval Version)
LCA Tejas Mk-2( Single- Seater)(Air-Force Version)
LCA Tejas Mk-2(Single -Seater)(Naval Version)
Problems-
Long Time Taken by Developing Agency to get the Aircraft Completely Ready.
Low Thrust To Weight Ratio -0.91
Improvements in Mk-2 Version-
Good Thrust To Weight Ratio-1.05
Long Range AESA RADAR
Increase in Max-Take - off Weight
Higher Top - Speed-Mach 2+
Last edited by proud2bindian; 08 May 11, at 08:20.
Its a good plane !!
The Mk-2 variant is going to give the F-16, Ef-2000, Gripen and Rafale a tough fight.:D
Really how so? Since you seem to know things we don't go over to the introductions and tell us about yourself. Also read the rules and the wabbit survival guide.Originally Posted by siddharth
Correct me if I'm wrong, I'm not totally spun up on the LCA design. The LCA will likely shape up to be a great aircraft. However, isn't the LCA is intended to be an affordable, low end ("low" as compared to MKI and MMRCA) fighter that can be produced in mass? I was under the impression that LCA would not have the payload, range, kinematic performance, systems, etc to compete with the best of the best from the US, Russia, and Europe because it doesn't need to (thats what MMRCA is for). If the LCA was on par with the fighters you mentioned why would India need the MMRCA competition? The LCA will be far cheaper than these aircraft. Just my two cents.
No One Kicks A$! Without Tanker Gas
LCA MK2 will be upgraded with GE F414 engine which is also used in F/A 18SH. In Avionics EL/M 2052 will be replacing EL/M 2032 as AESA radar. LCA MK2 will be one step ahead of F 16, JF 17 and J 10
Which version of the F-16? Are you talking F-16A/B, C/D, or E/F? Which Block are you comparing it to? I assume that you are not referring to the latest Block 50/52/60+ versions. With these aircraft we are talking APG-80 AESA, HMCS, extended range via conformal fuel tanks, F110-GE-129 or F100-PW-229, ASPIS internal electronic countermeasures suite (full provisions), and other bells and whistles. I would be extremely surprised if the LCA matched the Block 50/52/60 version of the F-16. If it did, the LCA would be on par with the other MMRCA contestants and the MMRCA would not be needed. The fact that MMRCA and LCA both exists tells me the LCA will not be on par with those aircraft.
EDIT: I do not doubt that the LCA will be a step up from earlier model F-16s. Asthetics aside, the latest Block F-16s are hardly comparable to the earlier models.
Last edited by Phoenix10; 24 May 11, at 21:35.
No One Kicks A$! Without Tanker Gas
I am making the comparison with PAF F16. The PAF C/D 52+ does not have the APG-80, instead they have AN/APG-68 AESA which is less advanced. Isreali air force is also integrating the EL/M 2052 in F -16 and F-15 fighters flown by them
Show me.
"We will go through our federal budget – page by page, line by line – eliminating those programs we don’t need, and insisting that those we do operate in a sensible cost-effective way." -President Barack Obama 11/25/2008
For PAF F16 C/D 52+
"Isreali air force is also integrating the EL/M 2052 in F -16 and F-15 fighters flown by them"
Source of Information is isrjournal.com
Show me.
"We will go through our federal budget – page by page, line by line – eliminating those programs we don’t need, and insisting that those we do operate in a sensible cost-effective way." -President Barack Obama 11/25/2008
Source?
DATE:11/01/11
SOURCE:Flight International
Israel bars AESA radar export to India
By Arie Egozi
The Israeli defence ministry has blocked the potential export sale of Israel Aerospace Industries' EL/M-2052 active electronically scanned array radar to a number of countries, with its action having an immediate impact on the Indian market.
The restrictions were imposed following pressure from the US administration, which has outlined its concerns to Israel several times in the past two years.
Washington's position is driven by an assumption that exporting IAI's advanced radar would undermine the sale of US-made systems on the international stage, sources say.
At one stage, Saab had considered offering the EL/M-2052 as part of its Gripen NG proposal for the Indian air force's medium multi-role combat aircraft requirement, but instead opted for Selex Galileo's ES05 Raven AESA.
IAI had also viewed the Indian Aeronautical Development Agency's Tejas light combat aircraft as a potential candidate for the AESA radar. The modular design weighs 130-180kg (286-397lb) and consumes 4-10kVA, depending on the design configuration, and has built-in growth potential, the company says.
Developed by IAI's Elta Systems subsidiary, the EL/M-2052 uses an array of solid-state transmit/receive modules designed to dynamically shape the radiation pattern using an ultra-low side-lobe antenna. It can perform simultaneous multi-mode operations, detecting airborne threats and supporting navigation and mapping, by producing high-resolution synthetic aperture radar imagery.
The sensor can detect and track up to 64 airborne targets from long range, and enable a pilot to engage several simultaneously using air-to-air missiles, IAI says. The sensor can also provide long-range target detection, classification and tracking in the anti-ship role.
Israel bars AESA radar export to IndiaAPG-68 is slotted planar array, not AESA.
As to Elta radars on US planes:...
NOT ON U.S. FIGHTERS
As for potential customers of the new radar, industry officials acknowledged that U.S. government restrictions prevent Elta or its parent company, Israel Aircraft Industries Ltd., from integrating the new radar in U.S. F-16 and F-15 fighters flown by the Israel Air Force. Similarly, the planned U.S. F-35 Joint Strike Fighter is not a candidate for the EL/M 2052, since the Pentagon is insisting that only a home-grown U.S. radar will be offered with the new aircraft.
Livnat said Elta’s principal focus for the EL/M 2052 is the international fighter upgrade market. He noted that preliminary market forecasts indicate that hundreds of fighter platforms could be made available for significant upgrades over the next 10 years.
However, Livnat emphasized that Elta is just now beginning to market the new radar, and therefore has no specific customer nation or fighter aircraft within its grasp.
“We don’t want to rule out any platform, since we have experience in adapting our radars to many different platforms. It all depends on the countries that may choose to upgrade existing fleets for the air superiority and advanced strike role instead of purchasing new aircraft,” he said.
When asked about the new Elta radar, a senior executive from Lockheed Martin, prime contractor for the F-16 as well as the planned F-35, insisted that Elta would not be able to offer the EL/M 2052 on any American aircraft without the express approval of U.S. airframe manufacturers and the U.S. government.
Interviewed during a visit to Israel on March 28, the Lockheed Martin executive said: “The Israelis can’t add a radar to their own F-16s or any F-16s on the market, for that matter, without permission from Lockheed Martin and the U.S. government. Without approval to provide the software interface, those aircraft cannot be supported … and I seriously doubt that there will be a change in U.S. policy regarding software source codes anytime in the foreseeable future.”
IntelliBriefs: First Israeli-designed AESA radar introduced for fighter makeovers
"We will go through our federal budget – page by page, line by line – eliminating those programs we don’t need, and insisting that those we do operate in a sensible cost-effective way." -President Barack Obama 11/25/2008
Comparing the LCA Mk-2, which is still on the design stage with F-16 B-60 or any of the Eurocanard fighters is pointless if not stupid.
The LCA Mk-2 hopefully will be as good as IAF expects it to be - working mostly as an interceptor or a CAS fighter. It would neither work as a air-superiority fighter nor in deep strike missions, which is what the EF or the Rafale can do.
Let's not go into juvenile d1ck measurements - however, I would love to hear what the defense professionals here have to say about the LCA design and projected capabilities ...
Ace o Spades in Ninth Hell
A short history of Mig-21, LCA Tejas and IAF requirements.
1. Mig-21s were used as air-superiority fighters in the Vietnam war - that was ~50 years back! The Mig-21s were the early 3rd gen fighters (although nobody counted generations back then). India got a few Mig-21s before the 1965 war, although there were not enough training and pilots to operate them). India finally used the Mig 21s for good in the 1971 war and were impressed by them.
2. By the 1980s, the lack of maneuverability of the Mig-21 compared to the new PAF F-16s and their obsolescence led the IAF to buy the Mig 29s from Soviet Union (SU). The Mig-21s were relegated to support roles and were meant to be used as point defense interceptors. However, the relatively "weak" engines of the Mig-21 meant that they were not very good as point defense interceptors too.
3. The Mig-29s being delivered by the already crumbling SU were having engine problems and creating a lot of trouble in IAF. The only good 4th gen fighters the IAF had were the Mirage 2000s bought from the French. In the mid 1980s, the IAF asked HAL to develop a "Mirage-type" (western design) 4th generation fighter for them to replace the Mig-21s for interception and support roles. That was when ADA was founded and LCA was conceived. So, LCA was designated as the Mig-21 replacement from the beginning.
4. However, in the first half of 1990s, India went through one of the most potent forex crisis in it's history. India's credit rating hit new lows, the economy was in shambles after the collapse of the Eastern Bloc, India's largest trading partner. All defense projects were hit by the economic downturn and no new LCA funding were available. Only after 1995 when India's economy had started to revive thanks to IT boom, did GoI put in some more funds for LCA design and development.
5. Shortly afterwards however, the govt changed, BJP came to power in 1996. The tenor of India's foreign and defense policy changed, with the explosion of nuclear bombs in 1998. At the critical time of LCA development (1998-2000), when foreign collaborations and component buying should have happened, the western governments put in critical sanctions on Indian defense industries, leading to extreme delays in the LCA project in general and the Kaveri engine in particular. Remember, India's biggest problem/ handicap has been it's industrial manufacturing limitations - especially in terms of metallurgy and manufacturing process development. Engines are particularly affected by a combination of these two. There are only 5-6 countries in the world who have the metallurgical technology to develop a 4th generation turbojet engine - USA, Russia, Britain/ Germany, France and Japan. PRC is still trying to catchup and so is India.
6. By the time LCA was ready with the prototypes, the Kaveri had failed critical tests. So, in desparation (and to avoid more Russian engines), India turned to western sources - GE 404 was chosen for the prototypes and then for Mk-1. For the LCA Mk-2 a competition was held, between GE/ EADS - finally GE won the contract with the GE 414. The Kaveri engine development was decoupled from LCA and is being tried out through a JV with Snecma (Mirage again).
7. So, in summary, LCA was, is and should be the real replacement for the Mig 21s. The reason LCA is so late is as much technical as political. Actually it is ALL political - given it's history, it is a miracle that the LCA is still alive and kicking. GoI and MoD should hunker down, throw a whole pot of money, as much brains and indsutrial power as they can and see the LCA through ASAP - to replace the Mig-21s. With India's current ability and clout, India can do it by 2015. Mass production from 2016 (25-30 a year) would put ~250/ 300 LCAs in IAF by 2025, replacing all the Mig-21s, Mig-27s and even the Jaguars due to retire by then.
Ace o Spades in Ninth Hell
lca is designed 2 replace the role of fightre interceptor(mig-21).But MMRCA and Su-30MKI are for deep striking missions.both are for different roles.I read some where that only first batch(40 planes) will have ths engine and rest of tejas will have kaveri engine,is it true?
correct me if am wrong.
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