Unknown Stealthy Helo Used in Bin Laden Raid?

**Phoenix10** · 04 May 11,, 02:16

Interesting article from aviation week. There is rumor that the SEALS went in with a stealthy helo not seen before now:

Stealth Helos Used In Osama Raid

Anyone else heard anything about this before now?

**HKDan** · 04 May 11,, 02:44

I was just reading about this on another site. Very, very fascinating. I imagine that the wreckage is going to pull in some serious coin for the Pakistanis although from what photos I ahve seen, basically all that is left is the tail.

**Stitch** · 04 May 11,, 05:03

Very interesting. From this angle, it looks like a regular MH-60 tail, though the horizontal stabilizer IS at an odd angle to the rest of the tail; you can even see the tail rotor drive shaft sticking out to the right on top of the wall:

However, the closeup shows what appears to be a stealthy treatment to the vertical stabilizer, in particular the five-bladed tail rotor (the standard tail rotor on the entire series of -60's are 4-bladed). I wonder if they were also possibly using a five or six-bladed main rotor, a-la the now-defunct RAH-66? So, what IS this new helo called? The MH-60X?

**erik** · 04 May 11,, 17:41

Is there anything valuable from the tail that could be compromised?

**Stitch** · 04 May 11,, 18:47

Originally Posted by erik

Is there anything valuable from the tail that could be compromised?

Probably not much, except for perhaps the paint, which is rumored to be the same type of "silver-loaded infrared suppression finish" as used on the MV-22; the construction of the tail appears to be conventional.

**Phoenix10** · 05 May 11,, 02:32

More details:

Army Times Mobile

SOCOM tasked Skunkworks to develop a stealthy black hawk with similar features to the F-117. Not a ton of details but an interesting read nonetheless. Makes you wonder what else is out there (not even counting the black projects). There is a higher res picture of the tail that shows the sharp edges like that of the F-117.

**Phoenix10** · 05 May 11,, 03:03

Here's the photo:

**Chogy** · 05 May 11,, 14:19

This chunk of tail is probably the target of much un-published communication between the U.S. and Pakistan. The paint and perhaps some other pieces may have intel value.

US: "Did you enjoy the show? By the way, we'll expect our helicopter tail within 3 days at the Afghan border."
Pakistan: "Oh really? You made us look like fools in front of the entire world. Thanks a lot... Oh yes, China has offered $10,000,000 for the part."
US: "Do you want to continue receiving aid?"
Pakistan: "Do you want us to funnel the aid to the Taliban?"

etc

**Blue** · 05 May 11,, 15:44

That does not look like a the tail of or even a remake of a B-Hawk. I saw some pics from other angles this morning and it looks more like the LHX or something. Who knows what they got cookin over at skunkworks?

**Blue** · 05 May 11,, 16:01

Well check this out!! I guess it could be a reskinned crashhawk!

Exclusive: Black Helo down – serial number found on a piece of the broken helicopter « David Cenciotti's weblog

**diablo49** · 05 May 11,, 18:40

I think we can fully expect the parts to go directly to China, regardless of what correspondence is happening in between. Relations are too good, and China's willing to pay to gain information/samples of stealth at a fraction of the cost it would take to develop themselves.

I don't see the aid as leverage, what's stopping China from filling the gap? Hell China is providing Pak with a better service, physical support against India. The monetary aid imo is increasingly a one sided desperate move to keep Pakistan' on our side', one that has obviously failed in its intent for years.

How damaging could it be for China to pore over these parts from a stealthy helicopter?

Are we talking damaging enough that it would have been better to not conduct the raid?

**citanon** · 05 May 11,, 18:49

Originally Posted by diablo49

I think we can fully expect the parts to go directly to China, regardless of what correspondence is happening in between. Relations are too good, and China's willing to pay to gain information/samples of stealth at a fraction of the cost it would take to develop themselves.

I don't see the aid as leverage, what's stopping China from filling the gap? Hell China is providing Pak with a better service, physical support against India. The monetary aid imo is increasingly a one sided desperate move to keep Pakistan' on our side', one that has obviously failed in its intent for years.

How damaging could it be for China to pore over these parts from a stealthy helicopter?

Are we talking damaging enough that it would have been better to not conduct the raid?

Probably not too damaging.

They will see the ultrastructure of the surface treatment and could probably copy it. If the same treatment is on the V-22 however it's probably no longer exotic.

They will see the tail shape but then again, everyone has seen the RAH-66.

Most damaging is probably first, the knowledge that the US has this capability, two, the evident utility of doing this motivating other people to try, three, some ideas on how to convert existing helos.

**Phoenix10** · 05 May 11,, 19:44

Originally Posted by diablo49

Are we talking damaging enough that it would have been better to not conduct the raid?

I would assume that this was highly considered while planning for the raid and it was deemed "worth the risk". ST6 has the necessary supplies on hand to "destroy" the helo (more than just destroying sensitive electronics) which leads me to believe not only was the risk acceptable but there was a risk migitagation plan in place as part of the mission.

**kato** · 05 May 11,, 20:45

German TV channel in a "news" show presented the wreckage of the helo, and then showed...

a picture of a RAH-66 Comanche in flight.

Seriously.

**USSWisconsin** · 05 May 11,, 21:38

Originally Posted by Chogy

This chunk of tail is probably the target of much un-published communication between the U.S. and Pakistan. The paint and perhaps some other pieces may have intel value.

US: "Did you enjoy the show? By the way, we'll expect our helicopter tail within 3 days at the Afghan border."
Pakistan: "Oh really? You made us look like fools in front of the entire world. Thanks a lot... Oh yes, China has offered $10,000,000 for the part."
US: "Do you want to continue receiving aid?"
Pakistan: "Do you want us to funnel the aid to the Taliban?"

etc

how about: " we know where you are keeping it - would you like to hand it over or would you prefer we destroy it where it is?"
"You wouldn't do that"
"Oh really, why not?"
"Ok it is on a truck heading for China, the Taliban have just destroyed your truck"
....